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The ethics of reclining airplane seats

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Re: The ethics of reclining airplane seats

#71

Post by readthenotes1 »

bigbillheck wrote: post #66
waqf wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, we're just in an equilibrium where everyone reclines. To be a PD it would have to be better for everyone if nobody reclined. We're in, perhaps, a tyranny of the majority, but those are everywhere. As I'm sure you've already noticed if you're 6'6".

> No, we're just in an equilibrium where everyone reclines Never had to sit in the very last row of an airplane?

We are in the trolley problem, not the prisoners dilemma.

And on some planes they even allowed those seats to recline a little, so maybe not in any philosophical debate other than that people often don't consider other people's suffering

Re: The ethics of reclining airplane seats

#72

Post by yodsanklai »

nippoo wrote: post #36

As someone tall (6'2") who regularly flies (~50-100 times a year) I'm pretty horrified at some of these responses. Yes, reclining the seat in front of me is marginally more uncomfortable on my knees - though offset by reclining my own seat. But if I have to sit in a non-reclined seat for more than an hour or two, there's a pretty big chance I'll wake up with my head bobbing forward and in horrific neck/lower back pai…

> Not once in 500+ flights has anyone ever complained or asked me to sit up - and it wouldn't even cross my mind to ask anyone to do the same!

Exactly! I'm surprised by some of the comments here considering that's it's essentially expected to do it. I wonder if they fly at all.

I'm a frequent flier too, and only one time it happened to me that someone complained (and he was some type of thug).

Also I'm not sure how this affects tall people in particular. Considering the seat angle, I don't think the seat will make contact with the other person knees. It's only an issue when food is served, but at that time it's forbidden to recline.

Re: The ethics of reclining airplane seats

#73

Post by throw7 »

"a grown man started violently shaking and kicking my seat"

there is some percentage of boys that never grow up to be a man... which seems to be growing? Or is it that the internet has just allowed us to all share our experiences with each other easily.

Tho, look at Jan 6th insurrection. The oath keepers seem to be "grown men" larping as seal team 6 under orders from the president. I don't get it.

Re: The ethics of reclining airplane seats

#74

Post by readthenotes1 »

Kharvok wrote: post #68
shkkmo wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So many things are biased in favor of tall people, I have no problem with them having to pay more for a larger seat rather than externalizing those costs onto everyone else.

I'm 6'10. What is built in my favor?

Basketball goal.

Volleyball net.

Gutters on single story house.

Definitely not chairs, door frames, showers, or beds.

Re: The ethics of reclining airplane seats

#75

Post by ryandvm »

bigbillheck wrote: post #66
waqf wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, we're just in an equilibrium where everyone reclines. To be a PD it would have to be better for everyone if nobody reclined. We're in, perhaps, a tyranny of the majority, but those are everywhere. As I'm sure you've already noticed if you're 6'6".

> No, we're just in an equilibrium where everyone reclines Never had to sit in the very last row of an airplane?

Ah, so it's really a "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas" situation.

Re: The ethics of reclining airplane seats

#76

Post by ryandvm »

pcl wrote: post #4

I’ve been on a few flights in which the seat reclined by swinging forward, rather than pivoting backward. So, the impact of the recline was fully experienced by the recliner, and not at all by the person in the seat behind.

That's genius. Way better than this interminable game theory experiment the airlines are running.

Re: The ethics of reclining airplane seats

#77

Post by readthenotes1 »

bombcar wrote: post #38
shp0ngle wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The options are usually either “dirt cheap economy” or “crazy expensive business”. For some reason business class is often like 5x 6x the economy! Why is there no middle class?

Shop around airlines, you can find some that offer a middle ground - Premium Economy or Exit Row. At 6'2" I've never really had a problem with someone reclining in front of me, and if someone behind asked nicely I'd go to upright lock position. Of course, I usually don't have a foot bag which makes a big difference.

Anything that fits under the seat in front of you will also fit hugged up to your seat under your knees to allow you to extend your legs once the plane has taken off.

I do that on exit rows regularly (except during takeoff and landing of course)

Re: The ethics of reclining airplane seats

#78

Post by wink »

nippoo wrote: post #36

As someone tall (6'2") who regularly flies (~50-100 times a year) I'm pretty horrified at some of these responses. Yes, reclining the seat in front of me is marginally more uncomfortable on my knees - though offset by reclining my own seat. But if I have to sit in a non-reclined seat for more than an hour or two, there's a pretty big chance I'll wake up with my head bobbing forward and in horrific neck/lower back pai…

No idea what planes you usually take or how long your legs vs torso are but I am a little taller and most of the time the person in front of me can't recline when my knees are there.

Others need these little wedge devices, I just sit and block it. And no, even if I wouldn't find it funny it's not like I can move my legs anywhere else.

This is mostly continental European smaller planes, honestly can't remember how it was in a 7x7, probably more space.

Re: The ethics of reclining airplane seats

#79

Post by readthenotes1 »

danaris wrote: post #40
bell-cot wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet people continue to vote their purchasing dollars for too-tight seat spacing - because the cost of roomier seats is for-sure and up-front. Vs. hope springs eternal on the reality that you'll get.

Relying on "voting with dollars" for something like this is not going to work, because that requires an idealized free market . Air travel is not an idealized free market. Frankly, nearly nothing in our current circumstances even comes close to acting like an idealized free market, because one thing that requires is enough disposable income for all parties that paying more for something preferred is not likely to cau…

I just abandoned paying about $12 more to get more legroom on a flight. The flight itself was an unexpected $200 hit and I didn't want to pay more than I had to.

In the US it seems there is not enough competition and as well their are significant barriers to entry for new airlines.

Re: The ethics of reclining airplane seats

#80

Post by readthenotes1 »

OJFord wrote: post #20
yodsanklai wrote: post #8

Almost everybody does it since it's impossible to sleep on a non-reclined seat. I'm surprised this is even an issue being discussed.

I assume you know it's not 'impossible'. Not only that, but I only recline if I'm awake and have my eyes open - in response to the person in front doing so. I don't find it a more comfortable position, but I do find the person in front adopting it an uncomfortable encroachment on my space; so I reclaim it. Obviously others differ, since I would never recline in the emergency exit row, so if we all felt the same way n…

I get horrible back pain if the seat doesn't recline on most seats (I've sat in a very few airline seats that are ok without reclining, but they are a few).

So I will claim my space in order to avoid it.

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