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Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

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Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#71

Post by ozzythecat »

etempleton wrote: post #43

Double edged sword. What the author proposes can be found. Go to some small low endowment private or public school for less money. Oh wait, you say, I don’t want to go there! The buildings aren’t as nice, the dorms are cramped and drab, there aren’t as many resources, the food sucks, the Wi-Fi is spotty, heck even the website sucks. Why is this? Because they don’t have the human or financial resources to do so. You g…

We visited my granddaughter at a Midwest state school last week.

I was actually surprised with how beautiful the university grounds were. They likely spend a fortune on landscaping alone.

Our older grandson went to the same school studying CS and EE. I’d say he’s doing very well.

I agree education is over priced, much like any other investment or asset in this day and age.

Perhaps my world view is narrow, but what are examples of these “affordable” schools with spotty wifi?

I think the old buildings or drab dorm argument isn’t a huge deal. Call me old fashioned, but I’d prefer my grand kids being safe but having some challenges. Otherwise, we’re keeping them in a bubble. As long as their is climate control and cleanliness, I’m fine with them not getting a 4.5 star hotel treatment.

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#72

Post by [deleted] »

md_ wrote: post #38

There are compelling alternative explanations for the rising cost of education ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol%27s_cost_disease#Educ... ). If the underlying cause were primarily administrative overhead, that should be readily apparent in the (public) budget of any public university. I’m not going to go do Silvergate’s research for him, but I’m surprised he doesn’t cite such a readily available piece of compe…

[deleted]

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#73

Post by aerovistae »

etempleton wrote: post #43

Double edged sword. What the author proposes can be found. Go to some small low endowment private or public school for less money. Oh wait, you say, I don’t want to go there! The buildings aren’t as nice, the dorms are cramped and drab, there aren’t as many resources, the food sucks, the Wi-Fi is spotty, heck even the website sucks. Why is this? Because they don’t have the human or financial resources to do so. You g…

Yet these colleges were nice in 1980 too, before the price of tuition went up 1200% per the graph in the article. I don't think your argument really makes any sense in view of that.

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#74

Post by labcomputer »

md_ wrote: post #38

There are compelling alternative explanations for the rising cost of education ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol%27s_cost_disease#Educ... ). If the underlying cause were primarily administrative overhead, that should be readily apparent in the (public) budget of any public university. I’m not going to go do Silvergate’s research for him, but I’m surprised he doesn’t cite such a readily available piece of compe…

If you read your own link, you’d find that Baumol’s hypothesis is that cost disease led to an increase of professor salaries… which is not reflected in reality. Real professor salaries have decreased (not increased) over the relevant time period, mainly because universities have shifted from tenured faculty to untenured adjunct, who work on semester-long contracts.

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#75

Post by sam345 »

md_ wrote: post #38

There are compelling alternative explanations for the rising cost of education ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol%27s_cost_disease#Educ... ). If the underlying cause were primarily administrative overhead, that should be readily apparent in the (public) budget of any public university. I’m not going to go do Silvergate’s research for him, but I’m surprised he doesn’t cite such a readily available piece of compe…

actually the Wikipedia article itself doesn't support your statement. Even if you take for granted there are some other explanations that contribute to the cost rise, administrative overhead is clearly a big factor and that's the issue that can be addressed and he's tackling, not e.g., the relative difference in productivity of educators and everyone else which is a questionable facto.

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#76

Post by sam345 »

etempleton wrote: post #43

Double edged sword. What the author proposes can be found. Go to some small low endowment private or public school for less money. Oh wait, you say, I don’t want to go there! The buildings aren’t as nice, the dorms are cramped and drab, there aren’t as many resources, the food sucks, the Wi-Fi is spotty, heck even the website sucks. Why is this? Because they don’t have the human or financial resources to do so. You g…

actually the Wikipedia article itself doesn't support your statement. Even if you take for granted there are some other explanations that contribute to the cost rise, administrative overhead is clearly a big factor and that's the issue that can be addressed and he's tackling, not e.g., the relative difference in productivity of educators and everyone else which is a questionable facto.

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#77

Post by bumby »

legitster wrote: post #52

I think this relationship might be a bit backwards. Easy credit made it so demand for degrees outstripped capacity. Schools raised prices to meter demand. At these increased prices, schools felt compelled to invest in programs and administration. Also, as I understand it, the accreditation process is pretty broken in the country. Whatever the top programs are doing becomes the benchmark for everyone else to match. So…

Don’t employers have a contribution to this as well? There’s many positions that don’t really need college degrees yet list them as a requirement. I feel if people could get gainful employment without college, demand would fall.

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#79

Post by wheels »

etempleton wrote: post #43

Double edged sword. What the author proposes can be found. Go to some small low endowment private or public school for less money. Oh wait, you say, I don’t want to go there! The buildings aren’t as nice, the dorms are cramped and drab, there aren’t as many resources, the food sucks, the Wi-Fi is spotty, heck even the website sucks. Why is this? Because they don’t have the human or financial resources to do so. You g…

That's really not true. Where I went to college has gone from $14,000 to $38,240 in the past 22 years. Inflation would have predicted it be $24,130. That's a private school that back then had a beautiful campus, good food, good wi-fi, a good website and good dorms. (Though, notably, food and dorms don't come out of tuition.)

The price increases are massive, across the board, and not obviously linked to quality of facilities. There's definitely something more than you're suggesting at work here.

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#80

Post by D13Fd »

Retric wrote: post #65
D13Fd wrote: post #44

I think the article misses the root cause here. Drastically increased availability of loan-based financial aid means far more more money in the system, which means the prices go up. The article nails the cause of more administrators--the schools have more money to spend and need to spend it--but completely misses the reason schools are able to charge so much more these days.

More money in the system doesn’t generally drive prices up in other areas due to supply and demand. Instead you get very expensive options for people with more money and cheap options for the cost cautious. Collage is largely an exception to that as elite schools don’t charge 100+x the average the way say watches, clothing, etc do, and most people aren’t going with the low cost options.

> More money in the system doesn’t generally drive prices up in other areas due to supply and demand.

Do you have an example?

Supply and demand is exactly what drives the prices up. People have a huge supply of dollars due to financial aid loans, and cannot spend those dollars on anything but education. With more money available, schools charge more.

It’s the same mechanism as inflation.

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