FBI: Carrier IQ files used for "law enforcement purposes" • Hacker News Board

Re: FBI: Carrier IQ files used for "law enforcement purposes"

#71

Post by kstenerud » Tue, Dec 13, 2011, 2:30 AM UTC

soundslikeneon wrote: post #25

kstenerud wrote: post #13

Which is why it's nice to be in full control of the software/hardware stack you use. Walled gardens may look nice and be convenient in the present, and may even give the illusion of security, but in the end they're inevitably abused.

I'm not sure if you meant for this particular interpretation or not, but the way you invoke "walled garden" makes it sound a lot like you are targeting iOS specifically. This couldn't be further from the truth. Based on my own reading. Carrier IQ is installed on many Android-based phones, including those from AT&T, Sprint and T-Mobile networks. Apple, HTC and Samsung have all confirmed that Carrier IQ is on their pho…

I'm invoking "walled garden", speaking of closed, controlled hardware environments in general, whether that be Apple or phone carriers or laptop manufacturers or the like. Once the controllers of that environment gain power, the human tendency to abuse and extend that power is only a matter of time.

The only way to ensure that you can trust the hardware and software you use is if it is 100% transparent. And while that is not always possible, the ability to control what runs on your own hardware goes a long way towards mitigating the risk of a betrayed trust.

Re: FBI: Carrier IQ files used for "law enforcement purposes"

#72

Post by tedunangst » Tue, Dec 13, 2011, 2:38 AM UTC

waqf wrote: post #68

redrobot5050 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unknown. However, the FBI can send a remote message to ANY phone to turn on its microphone and essentially use it as a wiretap. That's been built into every phone in the USA for something like 10 years now. It's why you have to surrender a cell phone in secure locations and military bases. That's old news. Said wiretaps have actually been used against organized crime in America in the past and is likely used with mor…

I've been hearing that story about the FBI remotely activating cellphone microphones for several years now, but do you have a credible source for it?

source: http://www.zdnet.com/news/fbi-taps-cell-phone-mic-as-eavesdr...

But the deeper you dig, the spottier the evidence really gets, with people confusing and jumbling a whole variety of facts together. For instance, the zdnet article cites "A BBC article from 2004 reported that intelligence agencies routinely employ the remote-activiation method."

Here's that article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/3522137.stm

It mostly seems to be talking about a physically bugged phone, except for the parts about decrypting conversations over the air. And the lasers.

All people have to go on is the words "roving bug" in a court opinion which has somehow morphed into "all phones contain SMS activated spy microphones."

Re: FBI: Carrier IQ files used for "law enforcement purposes"

#73

Post by patrickgzill » Tue, Dec 13, 2011, 5:10 AM UTC

NinetyNine wrote: post #38

JanezStupar wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But do you know what the worst part is? He is right and he was right on basically every count of batshit crazy IP/privacy "conspiracy" he ever conceived. And as crazy and repugnant as we find him. He probably is right about what is coming but we don't see it yet.

I think the actual "worst part" is that the guy who was right is a guy which most people find repulsive.

I think manners, and not eating dead skin in front of an audience, is not incompatible with having foresight.

Re: FBI: Carrier IQ files used for "law enforcement purposes"

#74

Post by X-Istence » Tue, Dec 13, 2011, 6:05 AM UTC

sukuriant wrote: post #46

NinetyNine wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the actual "worst part" is that the guy who was right is a guy which most people find repulsive.

That's how it usually is, unfortunately. People don't like being told where dangerous things will lead them.

Except that the reason we find him repulsive is not because of him telling us "where dangerous things will lead them" but because of him as a human being, his behaviours and personal hygiene.

I have great respect for his thoughts and ideas, and his steadfastness in following his own rules/guidelines, but I don't like him. If he were to look more the part I would have an easier time telling people about his ideas and thoughts without having to worry about people asking "Is that the guy that eats stuff he pulls from his feet?". His outward appearance influences the way people see him, the way people treat him and how much they value his ideas and how seriously they take them.

That is unfortunately true for anyone in almost any situation.

Re: FBI: Carrier IQ files used for "law enforcement purposes"

#75

Post by lukeschlather » Tue, Dec 13, 2011, 6:30 AM UTC

rdtsc wrote: post #61

lukeschlather wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>However, the FBI can send a remote message to ANY phone to turn on its microphone and essentially use it as a wiretap. That's been built into every phone in the USA for something like 10 years now. It's why you have to surrender a cell phone in secure locations and military bases. Really? When a phone is off, it's off, I don't believe the FBI can make a phone that has been hard powered off come up and start recordin…

So how many cell phones do you know that a powered off with a hard switch. You know, flip the switch like you do on your living room light. Or how many people do you know that take their battery out when the power their phone off. Well there is your answer.

When the phone is powered off it is physically incapable of receiving a wake-up request over the radio.

Re: FBI: Carrier IQ files used for "law enforcement purposes"

#76

Post by wladimir » Tue, Dec 13, 2011, 7:27 AM UTC

patrickgzill wrote: post #73

NinetyNine wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the actual "worst part" is that the guy who was right is a guy which most people find repulsive.

I think manners, and not eating dead skin in front of an audience, is not incompatible with having foresight.

But being maladapted in other ways might well be part of being "prophetic". Prescience, it appears, has a price.

Too bad people are shallow enough to regard matters of hygiene and mannerisms on the same level as having the uncanny ability to foretell what will happen. When will people learn to just see through that, ignore that... People can be weird and still have something substantial to say.

Re: FBI: Carrier IQ files used for "law enforcement purposes"

#77

Post by mariuolo » Tue, Dec 13, 2011, 9:24 AM UTC

Anyone shocked?

Re: FBI: Carrier IQ files used for "law enforcement purposes"

#78

Post by kiloaper » Tue, Dec 13, 2011, 12:41 PM UTC

redrobot5050 wrote: post #49

metachris wrote: post #42

This unfolding Carrier IQ scandal is a really huge deal in my opinion. It just shows how our phones are used by both companies and law enforcement to track us, and that probably for a decade with software like this. Anybody knows if there is a website that tracks this incident, affected phones, related news, ...?

Wait, you're just figuring out now that anything that travels through a cell phone network could be monitored?

There's a big difference between carriers knowing where you are and ad companies/law enforcement knowing without a warrant.

Re: FBI: Carrier IQ files used for "law enforcement purposes"

#79

Post by rdtsc » Tue, Dec 13, 2011, 1:37 PM UTC

lukeschlather wrote: post #75

rdtsc wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how many cell phones do you know that a powered off with a hard switch. You know, flip the switch like you do on your living room light. Or how many people do you know that take their battery out when the power their phone off. Well there is your answer.

When the phone is powered off it is physically incapable of receiving a wake-up request over the radio.

Again, how do you know the phone is powered off unless you have a flip switch connected to the battery, take the battery out (and at the same time assume there is other smaller battery in there) ?

Re: FBI: Carrier IQ files used for "law enforcement purposes"

#80

Post by redrobot5050 » Wed, Dec 14, 2011, 10:10 PM UTC

waqf wrote: post #68

redrobot5050 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unknown. However, the FBI can send a remote message to ANY phone to turn on its microphone and essentially use it as a wiretap. That's been built into every phone in the USA for something like 10 years now. It's why you have to surrender a cell phone in secure locations and military bases. That's old news. Said wiretaps have actually been used against organized crime in America in the past and is likely used with mor…

I've been hearing that story about the FBI remotely activating cellphone microphones for several years now, but do you have a credible source for it?

Yes.

Any briefing involving a secure area will mention that phones can be triggered this way, and that your customer (military, intel, DoD, or DOE) forbids their access for the very reason.