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The Workplace Is Rigged to Favor Morning People

productivityreport.org

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Re: The Workplace Is Rigged to Favor Morning People

#71

Post by ethanwillis »

nradov wrote: post #70
oblib wrote: post #43

I've never been a morning person, but I have worked circles around some of those who valued that far more than it's worth. Anyone who thinks getting up early makes them superior to those who don't is only boosting their ego. Getting stuff done right it what's truly important.

For many of us, getting stuff done requires real-time collaboration with our colleagues. Even in the software field, only a minority of jobs are primarily based on solo tasks that can be done at odd hours.

it's always morning somewhere.

Re: The Workplace Is Rigged to Favor Morning People

#72

Post by lr4444lr »

brendoelfrendo wrote: post #28
lr4444lr wrote: post #14

Yeah, because more senior workers eventually have kids, and kids need a proper morning wake up, and child care doesn't run until 10 PM. Don't like it? There are lots of industries with nighttime work or extensive travel obligations.

Hm, I think this is backwards; there's plenty of evidence that we wake up kids way too early. Really, school schedules are as they are to fit around work schedules, not the other way around. https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/features/schools-start-too-early.h...

Adolescents are only "children" in the modern social sense. Young children don't have that shift, and sunlight is important for them: https://parentingscience.com/kids-need-daylight/

Re: The Workplace Is Rigged to Favor Morning People

#73

Post by wnevets »

pleb_nz wrote: post #52
wnevets wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yeah, because more senior workers eventually have kids, and kids need a proper morning wake up, and child care doesn't run until 10 PM. Which do you think came first, jobs that start in the morning or child care that start in the morning?

Do you think it's ok for kids to be in child care until 10pm?

If that was the shift I was working, what choice would I have?

Re: The Workplace Is Rigged to Favor Morning People

#74

Post by naniwaduni »

lr4444lr wrote: post #72
brendoelfrendo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm, I think this is backwards; there's plenty of evidence that we wake up kids way too early. Really, school schedules are as they are to fit around work schedules, not the other way around. https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/features/schools-start-too-early.h...

Adolescents are only "children" in the modern social sense. Young children don't have that shift, and sunlight is important for them: https://parentingscience.com/kids-need-daylight/

Are the "more senior workers" with the clout to set the work schedule the ones that have pre-adolescent children, though? That would be one hell of a coincidence, and doesn't match up with parents-of-young-children I know.

Re: The Workplace Is Rigged to Favor Morning People

#76

Post by frankus »

I have the opposite problem. My energy peaks in the mid-morning, which my workplace has set aside for meetings (partly because we have team members in an earlier time zone, and partly because the manager who set it up that way had a late evening energy peak). So by the time I have an uninterrupted stretch of time, I’m often too drained to really get much done.

Re: The Workplace Is Rigged to Favor Morning People

#77

Post by mamediz »

I am not a morning person and sometimes I think about it, is it possible that my natural cycle is x hours of sleep and y hours awake and that x + y is not 24? I think this is my case because every now and then I can wake up early only to loose track, then go back to stay up longer in the night and wake up late again.

Re: The Workplace Is Rigged to Favor Morning People

#78

Post by fknorangesite »

trillic wrote: post #13

Early to sleep, early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy, and wise. In my case I have no choice, my SO works in medicine so I’m up when she’s up at 5 whether I like it or not. I’ve gotten a lot more productive since we started sharing a space. Is it the early rise, or the constant presence of the opposite sex?

> Early to sleep, early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy, and wise

Early to sleep, early to rise, makes a man stupid and blind in the eyes.

See how easy that is?

Re: The Workplace Is Rigged to Favor Morning People

#79

Post by lloeki »

collegeburner wrote: post #22
YokoZar wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you can't. Well, maybe you personally can. But all the actual science says that willpower, sleep hygiene, and sunlight exposure only move the margins a bit for those with inflexible night-time chronotypes. Doing everything "right" is not going to make a 5am natural sleeper into a morning person, it's going to make them into a 3am natural sleeper.

sorry, nothing about our bodies tells me they're this inflexible. i wonder if the "nighttime chronotypes" controlled for things that actually would influence it, like light exposure. regardless, one of the things that worked best for me was rigging a bright light to dawn gradually at a early hour, and cutting off my bright light exposure at a early hour. even if i have a "night chronotype" it's still possible to "tri…

Being suspicious is your prerogative, it doesn't detract from factual data that this exists.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder

For all my life I've been afflicted in such a way, judged as being lazy and stuff. I blamed myself a lot. I tried a lot of stuff to "hack" myself into a proper schedule, no-screen, circadian lighting, substance abuse, healthy lifestyle, all sorts of breakfast, intermittent fasting, doing a shit ton of sports to drive myself to exhaustion, nothing worked.

I just can't sleep before ~2AM.

If I ever do it's only when I am severely sleep deprived, and then only get very agitated sleep, wake up at most a couple of hours later and will be mostly sleepless for the remainder of the night.

With age I started to challenge the idea that everyone must operate in the same exact way and maybe there's nothing wrong with me.

Around that time I started to measure the shit out of my sleep using various devices, trying to find root causes, then the baseline of my core circadian rhythm. Over 5 years of accumulated data just point in a single very obvious direction: my body wants to sleep about 7h45 min avg, between 01:45 and 3:00, and get up around 10:00-10:30, and coercing myself out of that for any extended period of time results in sleep deprivation as I then only get at most half of restorative sleep. Of course I can wake up early for a flight or something, but that's just not supposed to happen everyday.

So what's the hack next? Bathing in 6000K artificial bright light at 4AM and closing blinds + pulling curtains at 4PM so that my schedule ends up aligning with what "normal" people do? Sorry but no I'm not going to do that.

Re: The Workplace Is Rigged to Favor Morning People

#80

Post by culopatin »

semireg wrote: post #46
orbital223 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen a lot of research (such as [1]) showing that kids waking up early is actually detrimental to them. I feel the causality goes in pretty much the reverse direction that you're implying: the children are forced to get up early to go to school because their parents need to be free of them early and their parents need to be free of them early because they are forced to be at work early. [1]: https://www.ncbi.nlm…

Define: kid. Parent wrote “having kids” and take this from a father of a 5 and 2 year old it’s: “daddy cheezy eggz!!!” at 530am no matter what.

I read this three times and I still don’t know what your comment was supposed to say or mean.
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