Every time these articles come up I think about what a shafting people in Japan are taking on property and why western media want to write articles lying about it to the public. Japanese property is tiny by any metric compared to western property; maybe there are some rich people who would like to remove housing regulations and make more money selling crap tiny plastic homes to people at absurd valuations…
Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think
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Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think
#72Maybe it's only cheap due to the barriers to immigration? I've only been to Japan once, but I noticed how they're very formal compared to the various EU countries.
I keep meeting people who move to Appalachia and not register that the things that made it attractive (low crime etc) won't stay that way if people keep talking to me like I'm literally retarded.
(Every time someone tells me "I work in technology or whatever as I walk to get my espresso, I want to say "Great! Enjoy locking down your house like my South African neighbor told me they had to during apartheid, I've had too many of these conversations where the person was speaking in bad faith.")
Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think
#73I paid $1,500 for furnished 2 bedroom:
Can confirm. Three years ago I spent 2 months in a furnished two bedroom apartment two stops away from Shinjuku - paid $1,500 / month. Had three different subway stations within ~7 min walk each. Great location, very inexpensive.
The company I used is Fontana - English speaking, they set up gas/electric/water and all I had to do was pay for them at the convenience store nearby (7 Eleven). The only requirement is a 2-month minimum stay. Will do again.
Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think
#74Should also be noted that Tokyo is one of the few major metropolises in the world where the price of housing has not meaningfully increased in real terms since 2000[1]. The Japanese constitution drastically limits zoning, building and land use restrictions. As a result the city of Tokyo builds more new housing than all of California or England.[2]
(And no, this isn't because of Japan's demographics. While Japan as a whole is stagnating, the population of Tokyo is still increasing as fast as London, New York or the Bay Area because of high rural to urban migration.)
Tokyo is very much proof that NIMBY reforms are the solution to the housing crisis in the West. Deregulating the ability of property developers to build new housing will incontrevirtibly increase supply, blunt runaway housing costs, and make dense cities with high economic opportunity affordable for the middle class.
[1]https://www.vox.com/2016/8/8/12390048/san-francisco-housing-... [2]https://www.sightline.org/2021/03/25/yes-other-countries-do-...
Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
Except that housing an hour out of NYC seems to be more expensive than the housing the article talks about.
I don't know - an hour out of Penn Station takes you as far as places like Wyandanch on Long Island with the LIRR, or Stamford, CT with the MNR.
I specifically looked at Stamford when I wrote that. Tokyo is in the 350-600sq ft range by the article. You can currently get a fairly spartan 600 sq ft in Stamford for the price listed (one vacancy). That's more than the average the article cites, but in the same range.
After all, you'd have to compare the outskirts of Stamford with the outsirkts of Tokyo.
Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think
#76I think measuring per person is pretty misleading. A single person living in a 25m^2 appartment would be quite cramped. A family with two young kids living in 100m^2 is pretty spacious. So if you look at living space per person, then societies with smaller household sizes will appear to have more living space per person. so if you measure that, you also have to compare how many people are in households as well.
Yeah, a more accurate measurement would be "baseline + X" - you don't really need to go above the average household size, but you can fit people in way denser than 25m^2 (270 sq ft) if they share common areas. The average dorm room is 230 sq ft (with a roommate!) but the dorm provides common areas and other amenities. Another thing to consider when comparing countries is what is considered "living space" and what is…
It depends on how you measure those 25m^2; I lived in a studio in Copenhagen for a while and my 25m^2 included the common areas / roof garden etc. Private space was around 16-20m^2, and I am being generous here.
Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think
#77if you can't even tell where Tokyo and Osaka are on your maps, you probably shouldn't publish articles about Japan. Who knows what other numbers or diagrams are wrong there...
Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think
#78When did paying 30% of your paycheck in rent become "very affordable?"
What else do you need to spend lots of money on?
Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think
#79As someone being in Tokyo right now chatting with locals about this topic it's just not generally true or comparable to other cities. Sure there are parts of Tokyo that are cheaper, but Tokyo is gigantic. All the places that "matter" with reasonably fast commute are very expensive and small.
> locals about this topic
Are the locals foreigners or Japanese? The set of housing options are different between the two. There's an implicit price premium and threshold on the units with landlords receptive to foreigners. The cheaper accommodations are not going to be available especially if tenant isn't fluent in the language.
> All the places that "matter" with reasonably fast commute are very expensive and small.
I live 3 minutes commute to Shibuya, and my rent is half my rent in an outer borough of NYC. Brand new lofty unit designed by a famous architect. Space efficiency-wise, it's equal if not greater. It's an apples-to-oranges comparison to just look at floorspace, since Japan has lots of infrastructure such as actually convenient stores which means people don't need to own as much household items.
Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think
#80I think measuring per person is pretty misleading. A single person living in a 25m^2 appartment would be quite cramped. A family with two young kids living in 100m^2 is pretty spacious. So if you look at living space per person, then societies with smaller household sizes will appear to have more living space per person. so if you measure that, you also have to compare how many people are in households as well.
> A family with two young kids living in 100m^2 is pretty spacious.
depends on your perspective, I guess! that sounds horribly cramped to me.