Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

macOS 13 Ventura review

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 185 posts

Re: macOS 13 Ventura review

#71

Post by gw99 »

kossTKR wrote: post #26

Is there any legit reason Apple is hastening the drop of support for older computers when they can be upgraded just fine with the OpenCore Legacy Patcher? It seems wrong to me in an age of excessive e-waste that seemingly arbitrary thresholds is set that has zero hardware links. I generally really like Apple, and is planning on retiring my 2014 Macbook Pro for an M2, but it's still working absolutely great. But i cou…

I think they're mostly trying to kill off the old Intel Macs now. And any ARM devices that don't have Neural Engine.

I expect the more modern Apple Silicon based ARM devices to have a longer support lifespan than older Macs.

Re: macOS 13 Ventura review

#72

Post by smoldesu »

duped wrote: post #69
zdragnar wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is also a proprietary connector, which contributes to waste by virtue of not being able to reuse cables from other devices. I can understand that they didn't want to have customers upset that a dodgy third party cable fried their expensive Apple equipment, but the transition to USB-C can't come soon enough IMHO.

I don't have this problem, all my devices have had lightning connectors for years. I don't plan or want to leave the ecosystem and my cables have lasted quite some time. Conversion to USB-C will cause me to throw away all my cables.

USB-C cables are an investment in the future. Apple helped design the USB-C (and associated Thunderbolt spec) and knew that they would inevitably be forced to switch to USB-C. The iPad came first (to make it "Pro"), but the writing has been on the wall since Macbooks started charging over USB-C. There were legitimately no benefits to using Lightning besides the licensing fees that they charged when people made Lightning-based peripherals.

Maybe for you, Lightning cables don't seem like such a bad investment. To me, it's an source of imminent E-waste. The Lightning port on my Magic Trackpad 2 is the only thing that makes it feel dated, and unfortunately the feature that will eventually make it unusable. There is literally zero reason this accessory should have shipped with the port.

Re: macOS 13 Ventura review

#73

Post by crazygringo »

anonymouse008 wrote: post #58
crazygringo wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> explain in depth why a side bar makes sense for settings, the most cognitively demanding part of an OS now with superfluous information on the side? That's critical real estate to lose What are you talking about? First of all, there's zero "critical real estate" to lose. Settings doesn't, and never has, taken up even close to full screen width on any regular laptop/monitor. And it still doesn't. Literally nothing i…

A screen only has so many pixels, every pixel matters. Further, is System Settings the only window open at the time? When are you usually entering the panel? Is it to achieve a specific aim when other windows are also open? or to browse and learn features? ... list goes on ... I attribute System Preference's failure to be not creating additional icons and groupings that were properly descriptive and respectful of use…

System Settings only uses half of my 13" MacBook's screen width. That seems entirely reasonable. There's no shortage of pixels here...

And why would you have to mentally put the sidebar together with the left side of the screen? Do you complain about tabbed dialogs not having the tabs align with the top of your physical screen?

When you have more "tabs" than can fit horizontally (e.g. more than 5-7), the best solution is to turn them into a vertical list on the side where you can see and scroll more of them comfortably. This is better. (Whereas icon-based "table of contents" that disappears when you navigate and requires a "back button", as System Preferences was, is just terrible all around.)

You know all the way back in System 6, Control Panel used a left sidebar, and the overall window was a little more than half as wide as a Mac SE's screen. It's a pretty classic layout.

The new System Settings is totally clear on how to use, and totally reasonably sized. No unreasonable "mental effort" needed. Sure you can nitpick the precise organization of a few panels but for the many hundreds of settings, nothing will ever leave you perfectly happy.

Re: macOS 13 Ventura review

#74

Post by SllX »

slifin wrote: post #51
pohl wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like maybe a bigger cause of e-waste might be the mindset that a device immediately needs to go in a dumpster the day after some OS upgrade comes out that won't run on it.

As a software developer I don't recommend my friends or family put important information or sign in to any device that is running unmaintained OS software Because I assume they're exploitable from a security point of view after that point Of course no one follows that advice but what are we supposed to do?

Apple also isn’t dropping support for older operating systems the second a new one hits the CDNs.

A Mac on the latest OS that it can run can still expect at least two to three years of additional security updates, so if yesterday was the end of the line for your Mac and you want to use it for a couple of more years, feel free. You won’t get Stage Manager, but from the reviews I’ve read, you’re not missing much.

Re: macOS 13 Ventura review

#75

Post by dainiusse »

kossTKR wrote: post #26

Is there any legit reason Apple is hastening the drop of support for older computers when they can be upgraded just fine with the OpenCore Legacy Patcher? It seems wrong to me in an age of excessive e-waste that seemingly arbitrary thresholds is set that has zero hardware links. I generally really like Apple, and is planning on retiring my 2014 Macbook Pro for an M2, but it's still working absolutely great. But i cou…

I explain it simply - they will haste to ger rid of all Intel laptops and don't have to maintain x86 version of macOS. That is them becoming evil.

Re: macOS 13 Ventura review

#77

Post by [deleted] »

anonymouse008 wrote: post #8

To everyone who worked on System Settings, you put in a ton of work, and you're all very talented to ship something in a new framework (SwiftUI) that has gone on to millions of devices. I only have one question: who was in charge of the thumbs up / thumbs down on this new design? Was it Craig Federighi? You all did amazing work with the tools offered - SwiftUI makes the side bar navigation and simple cell table views…

[deleted]

Re: macOS 13 Ventura review

#78

Post by luuuzeta »

>But unlike minimizing or maximizing an app from the Dock, each "stage" can contain multiple app windows from multiple apps; switch from one stage to another, and every window on that stage will pop back up on your screen in exactly the arrangement you were using before.

How does this new feature perform with external monitors? One of my gripes with macOS is how awful it's at managing windows. For example except for Slack, Outlook, Zoom, and a Brave window for listening to music on YouTube that stay in the MB's display, all the other apps go into my external monitor. However every time the computer goes to sleep, I must move a bunch of windows back to the external monitor. I was using Stay [1] and it was doing a decent job, however I couldn't justify paying $15 after the trial ended.

[1]: https://cordlessdog.com/stay/

Re: macOS 13 Ventura review

#79

Post by 1123581321 »

kossTKR wrote: post #26

Is there any legit reason Apple is hastening the drop of support for older computers when they can be upgraded just fine with the OpenCore Legacy Patcher? It seems wrong to me in an age of excessive e-waste that seemingly arbitrary thresholds is set that has zero hardware links. I generally really like Apple, and is planning on retiring my 2014 Macbook Pro for an M2, but it's still working absolutely great. But i cou…

Put ChromeOS Flex on it. It’s a flavor of ChromeOS/Neverware meant for old PCs and Macs that can’t keep up with Windows and macOS. https://chromeenterprise.google/os/chromeosflex/

Re: macOS 13 Ventura review

#80

Post by haskaalo »

I'm French Canadian and because of this I have two keyboard languages. French Canadian and English (Canada).

Before, when I'd press FN to change my keyboard language, I used to see "French Canada" and "English Canada". Now I just see "Canada" and "Canada - CSA".

This is a weird change.

Post reply on HN