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Kiwifarms Dropped by Their ISP

t.me

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Re: Kiwifarms Dropped by Their ISP

#71

Post by boppo1 »

geofft wrote: post #58
boppo1 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moon? Please loop me in. There is precedent for censorious tech conglomerates (reddit, at least) to defend people who are sex offenders. I'm no fan of Kiwifarms, but I'm also no fan of the DIY HRT guide Keffals runs that advises (often underage) people on doing home-chemistry to make hormones. Would be nice if the right could stop slandering every trans person as a mentally ill groomer and the left could stop labelin…

"Moon" is the name of the person who spoke the thing above that is being discussed in this thread. Advising underage people through a wiki on how to make hormones at home is neither sexual assault nor grooming as the term is conventionally understood. How could it be? You can't get in contact with an anonymous reader of information that has been published to the public. You have no idea what they do with that informa…

>...example of free speech

Well, you have a point there.

But if any of the screenshots of the 'catboy'(?) discord are real... I think there's probably a line being crossed.

Re: Kiwifarms Dropped by Their ISP

#72

Post by midislack »

insanitybit wrote: post #6
josephcsible wrote: post #2

This is why arguments justifying censorship by saying "just host it yourself then" are wrong. Whenever you take over one level in the stack, the next level down will just censor you instead.

I didn't see that argument a lot. I'm glad their ISP dropped them. "Censorship" is a bit of a silly word to me at this point. Is it censorship when your email provider removes spam? When your antivirus removes malware? I mean, spam is speech, malware is code and code is speech. So it is censorship. We just all agree it's a good thing. This is a good thing. edit: Since this keeps coming up, it's not just spam emails/…

No post body was provided.

Re: Kiwifarms Dropped by Their ISP

#73

Post by geofft »

josephcsible wrote: post #53
lbruno wrote: post #39

i'm enjoying the right-leaning comments here -- it's not censorship, it's being censured which highlights a point i like to make: if you wish to defend KF, first you have to justify the concrete speech being carried out on it with examples which you can't post here because it goes against the rules of this place -- which should be a pretty big hint as to why the fruit site got censured

> which highlights a point i like to make: if you wish to defend KF, first you have to justify the concrete speech being carried out on it That's not true, though. Remember this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Party_of_Am... David Goldberger, a Jewish lawyer, defended actual Nazis' rights to free speech. Do you think that he thought Nazism was justified?

No, but he happened to be wrong for it.

The NSPA's goal was never to actually hold a march. They never did hold a march in Skokie, after that defense. Their goal was to harass Jewish communities through the process of applying for the march, which Goldberger, for all his good intention, assisted them with.

As the article notes, they sent letters to a whole bunch of suburbs asking for a permit to hold a march. They never followed up with the suburbs that ignored them, nor did they march in those suburbs either.

The whole thing was a bad-faith tactic which today we'd call trolling. They weren't fighting for their right to speak freely in Skokie, they were fighting for their right to use the legal process to harass the city of Skokie.

Re: Kiwifarms Dropped by Their ISP

#74

Post by sascha_sl »

boppo1 wrote: post #69
sascha_sl wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a lie. Nobody is making "bathtub estrogen". It's not that easy to make. It's always been a joke. Estradiol as a medication is easily available. It is listed on the WHO list of essential medicines and very commonly prescribed to women after menopause. So there's no money to be made there either.

Hell I dunno bud. All I know is when I followed a few breadcrumbs a while back I quickly found a 'guide' on it. I knew a kid in highschool who extracted DMT himself with lighter fluid from an online guide, and that was just to get high. I know that dysphoria is a pretty desperate situation for some, so I wouldn't be surprised if someone felt motivated to make the attempt.

All serious guides consist of ordering from foreign pharmacies and then knowing what the things you ordered do.

If you have any information to the contrary I'd love to see it.

Re: Kiwifarms Dropped by Their ISP

#75

Post by byyll »

insanitybit wrote: post #6
josephcsible wrote: post #2

This is why arguments justifying censorship by saying "just host it yourself then" are wrong. Whenever you take over one level in the stack, the next level down will just censor you instead.

I didn't see that argument a lot. I'm glad their ISP dropped them. "Censorship" is a bit of a silly word to me at this point. Is it censorship when your email provider removes spam? When your antivirus removes malware? I mean, spam is speech, malware is code and code is speech. So it is censorship. We just all agree it's a good thing. This is a good thing. edit: Since this keeps coming up, it's not just spam emails/…

Using your analogy with malware and spam, the users that do not want to read kiwifarms can choose not to by.. just not reading it. Or blocking it in their firewall or browser. Seems like it's a bad analogy.

Re: Kiwifarms Dropped by Their ISP

#76

Post by immibis »

XCabbage wrote: post #59
sascha_sl wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can the targets of Kiwifarms opt-out from being harassed as a result of being listed alongside their address on the site?

Like who? Whenever Kiwi Farms comes up, I see these claims made about it - that people were threatened with violence, that the forum was used to coordinate harassment campaigns, that home addresses were posted, etc etc - but never with any specific examples shown of any of that happening.

Come on now. This is common knowledge and you can easily research it yourself. What you're doing right now is the moral equivalent of saying "nobody has shown me evidence that germs exist" on a COVID-19 thread.

Re: Kiwifarms Dropped by Their ISP

#77

Post by midislack »

anaisbetts wrote: post #33
ultra_nick wrote: post #11

What is Kiwifarms?

It is a KKK-level hate site against LGBT people and particularly trans women, that actively seeks to terrorize them by doxxing them and their family members. Several suicides have been attributed directly to their actions, as well as the Christchurch massacre.

No post body was provided.

Re: Kiwifarms Dropped by Their ISP

#78

Post by Trumpi »

simplotek wrote: post #67
Trumpi wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it censorship when your email provider removes spam? No, but only in situations where it is user controlled. In other words, tools that empower a user to control what they read is not censorship. In the case of spam, false positives and false negatives can be addressed by the user by adding/removing email from a spam folder. If the user does not have this kind of control, then it can be argued that this is censo…

> No, but only in situations where it is user controlled. In other words, tools that empower a user to control what they read is not censorship. That makes no sense. A paper supplier is not censoring anyone if they can't or won't provide printing paper. You're somehow conflating not actively supporting a cause with censoring someone. It's ok if you feel yo have something to say to the world, but that does not give yo…

> You're somehow conflating not actively supporting a cause with censoring someone.

No, I'm merely making the argument that spam control tools are not censorship because the user decides. I'm not sure how the paper supplier fits in to this argument. Perhaps it is a good analogy for the original topic.

Re: Kiwifarms Dropped by Their ISP

#79

Post by zo1 »

api wrote: post #42
lbruno wrote: post #39

i'm enjoying the right-leaning comments here -- it's not censorship, it's being censured which highlights a point i like to make: if you wish to defend KF, first you have to justify the concrete speech being carried out on it with examples which you can't post here because it goes against the rules of this place -- which should be a pretty big hint as to why the fruit site got censured

The right supports the right of private businesses to decide who to serve unless they are kicking out right wingers in which case we need government intervention to guarantee a platform. It’s sort of like how they support federalism except when states do things they don’t like, or small government except for when it comes to their pet issues.

As much as I agree with the free-market/private company angle. I also have to say that we are all in a "culture" war, or a war for mindshare in the general public. You have to understand that the right is losing. Sanity and nuance and reasonable thought are losing too, let's be frank about that. Just look at the crazy discussions about any heated topic like race, gender, and now the war in Ukraine to see that.

That is why they hold these two seemingly-opposing viewpoints.

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