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Y Combinator Mentoring for Women

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Re: Y Combinator Mentoring for Women

#71

Post by jimbokun »

fallentimes wrote: post #14
aston wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious whether you'd be willing to share some of those eye-opening insights with us.

Wouldn't really call them insights, but sure. HHI 60k, Black, 2.1 GPA, similar EC, no record, ACT Score 16 - Accepted. HHI 50k, White, 3.2 GPA, similar EC, no record, ACT Score 22 - Rejected. Most were variations of that. That is, less qualified applicants in similar economic situations were admitted solely because of race. Obviously I knew these practices existed (oh hai Division 1 athletics), I was just surprised h…

I've seen reports that Asian Americans have now replaced Jewish Americans' historic role as having an upper limit quota for how many to admit. Does that fit with your experience?

I think that the University of California system has higher percentages of Asian Americans than other academically comparable institutions since California banned affirmative action.

Re: Y Combinator Mentoring for Women

#72

Post by iamelgringo »

cstejerean wrote: post #65
iamelgringo wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a man, and I've worked as an ER/ICU nurse for the past 15 years. Being a gender FOO in a gender BAZ dominated industry can be unpleasant and challenging at times. Not to complain, but to make the point: * I almost got expelled from nursing school because of what I believe was discrimination towards men. I've talked to other men who've had similar experiences. * I worked on a unit where my charge nurse repeatedly…

I'm a bit confused about the last two points. If you were a big strong female would they not have asked you to help move patients or take care of hostile patients? Were you asked to help with physical tasks because you are a man or because you are strong?

I suppose that's a good point.

In thinking about it, however, I haven't noticed when working in an ICU that stronger women are asked to care for the 400+ lb patients more often.

It is a fairly common occurrence, however for men to be asked to care for certain patients because "men are stronger". I've also been told by women that they are glad to have more men in the industry because "men are stronger".

I could be wrong, but I struggle to think of an instance where it would be okay for me to to categorize female coworkers as being inherently better or worse because of a physical attribute, however.

Re: Y Combinator Mentoring for Women

#73

Post by jimbokun »

gabrielroth wrote: post #33
halo wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll admit that I haven't personally taken such a class - sadly it's very unlikely I'll be able to do so. I would find it very sad if that you described happened, though. I think a male point of view would be valuable on a discussion of an issue like proto-feminism, for example. The idea that someone would get shouted down from a discussion for having a dissenting point of view to me seems bizarre assuming they facil…

I doubt you'd get 'shouted down.' The poster you're responding to never said anything like that. He (I'm assuming) suggested that you'd feel isolated, and have difficulty communicating your ideas in a way that makes you feel you're being understood. This could happen (to a man in such a class, or to a woman in a male-dominated workplace) with no one shouting at anyone, or expressing any kind of hostility, or even rea…

I would place that responsibility on the person to get better at communicating. People of the opposite sex aren't aliens. It should be possible to get your ideas across if you put effort into understanding their world view.

Now, if your ideas are not received because of existing prejudice, that's a different issue.

Re: Y Combinator Mentoring for Women

#74

Post by jimbokun »

maxklein wrote: post #60
fallentimes wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't really call them insights, but sure. HHI 60k, Black, 2.1 GPA, similar EC, no record, ACT Score 16 - Accepted. HHI 50k, White, 3.2 GPA, similar EC, no record, ACT Score 22 - Rejected. Most were variations of that. That is, less qualified applicants in similar economic situations were admitted solely because of race. Obviously I knew these practices existed (oh hai Division 1 athletics), I was just surprised h…

If the 2.1 GPA dude had a mentor group catering specifically to him, his GPA may have been higher. That's the point of group specific mentoring groups - find a group that seems weak in a particular area and mentor them specifically to improve there. You don't see Black Basketballers Mentoring Associations, do you?

As a white man who loves basketball and would have loved to have been better at it at a younger age, I would be all for a Black Basketballers Mentoring White Basketballer Wannabes Assocation!

Re: Y Combinator Mentoring for Women

#75

Post by ken »

sanj wrote: post #13
halo wrote: post #4

I apologise in advance as this is probably quite a controversial rant, but this sort of thing has always really frustrated me. I guess it comes down to this: I don't see how sex matters when you're a business person, when you're programming, when you're building things. The sex of the person rightfully shouldn't come into it - it's their skills that matter. The interpreter, afterall, doesn't spit out a different resu…

Might I suggest that you consider taking part in a class dominated by women? Perhaps something discussing the proto-feminist leanings of Woolf? I'm not kidding. I think you'll find that you're lonely. That you gravitate towards talking to other men in the group. That you feel like your voice isn't heard. That you sense resentment towards you. That your opinion isn't valid. Now imagine going through that every day in…

OK, I'll bite. In college my minor was archaeology, a field completely dominated (at least at my school) by women. I've been the one guy in otherwise all-women classes.

Compared to my CS classes, it was like a breath of fresh air. (I actually double-booked my afternoons, and walked out of Operating Systems halfway through class to go study ancient Peruvian pottery. It was therapeutic.) I felt like a curiosity at first, but never trivialized or resented. As always, I gravitated towards a couple other people in the department as friends, but they didn't happen to be men.

The pattern I saw was not that men (or the dominant sex) are trivializing and resentment-laden, but that specific departments were. Even the women in the CS department were into the macho-geek BS, and a lot of us men hated it.

That's why we're offended by the suggestion that there should be special anything for women in CS. A lot of us men want computing to grow up, too, and we feel excluded by these women-only programs. There's your sex discrimination.

Re: Y Combinator Mentoring for Women

#76

Post by scott_s »

halo wrote: post #4

I apologise in advance as this is probably quite a controversial rant, but this sort of thing has always really frustrated me. I guess it comes down to this: I don't see how sex matters when you're a business person, when you're programming, when you're building things. The sex of the person rightfully shouldn't come into it - it's their skills that matter. The interpreter, afterall, doesn't spit out a different resu…

Your second paragraph is why attempts like this author's exist. The assumption is that the gender imbalance in our field is cultural, not biological. She's trying to fix that imbalance.

Re: Y Combinator Mentoring for Women

#77

Post by scott_s »

asdflkj wrote: post #34
nostrademons wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took a course at Mt. Holyoke in college (I'm male, Mt. Holyoke is an all-women's college). I also spent quite a while in the Harry Potter fandom, which is literally 99% female. In neither situation did I ever feel marginalized, or excluded, or ignored. Occasionally I felt like I was an object of curiosity, but I can deal with that. It is a bit of a culture shock, and in both situations I was careful to observe firs…

PG's actions imply that it's okay to discriminate on the basis of intelligence and ability. Here we probably all agree. This woman's actions imply that it's okay to discriminate on the basis of gender. If you don't have a problem with it, then would you also not have a problem with a society that excludes women?

In order to correct for a demographic imbalance, you have to put extra attention on minority recruitment and retention in the group.

She is clearly discriminating based on gender, but she's doing it because of an observed gender imbalance.

Re: Y Combinator Mentoring for Women

#78

Post by anamax »

maurycy wrote: post #62
Prrometheus wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most arguments for "diversity" are bullshyt. However, I can see how otherwise qualified female applicants might feel intimidated by an organization that is 95%+ male. Increasing the number of females in the program could therefore increase the average quality of the founder pool. But yes, I don't see any worth in "diversity" for its own sake, unless we are talking about a diversity of skill-sets, knowledge, o…

Diversity is good because when members have different experiences, and thus point of views. "Point of view is worth 80 IQ points"

> Diversity is good because when members have different experiences, and thus point of views.

Wrong. Diversity that brings in useful points of view is good. Diversity that brings in other points of view is bad.

> "Point of view is worth 80 IQ points"

My cat has a different point of view but I'm pretty sure that she doesn't have anything useful to say about Google App Engine.

Re: Y Combinator Mentoring for Women

#79

Post by opal »

meredydd wrote: post #52
ALee wrote: post #39

For all the gents out there, please stop griping. We need more women in startups (seriously, have you been to the meat market parties after tech events?!). Moreover, it'll give lonely male hackers more choice beyond the no talent Julia whatsherface-cant-get-back-my-15minoflife-after-reading-her-lameness-in-Wired, the designer and "community" chicks, the high-powered VC women, and the one or two technical female found…

We need more women in startups (seriously, have you been to the meat market parties after tech events?!) ... Moreover, it'll give lonely male hackers more choice Although you probably didn't mean it, this attitude is most definitely Part Of The Problem. It's a pain because you're right - in an ideal, evenly-divided environment, there would be a lot of within-group dating, and everyone would be fine with that. The pro…

Just to add, the guys have it far worse in this situation.

Re: Y Combinator Mentoring for Women

#80

Post by anamax »

ajross wrote: post #15
sanj wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might I suggest that you consider taking part in a class dominated by women? Perhaps something discussing the proto-feminist leanings of Woolf? I'm not kidding. I think you'll find that you're lonely. That you gravitate towards talking to other men in the group. That you feel like your voice isn't heard. That you sense resentment towards you. That your opinion isn't valid. Now imagine going through that every day in…

Indeed. Now add a bunch of chest-pounding chicks writing self-described "controversial rants" about the utter ridiculousness of having a group just for men to feel good about themselves. Hell, the tone of the parent article alone is enough to justify this group. Guys: we already dominate the industry, and will for the rest of our careers. There's no need to be jerks about it. If you don't see the need for a group to…

> Guys: we already dominate the industry, and will for the rest of our careers.

What do you mean "we"? The fact that some other guys dominate "the industry" does absolutely nothing for me.

If this is like other similar efforts, it's an attempt to help connected women compete with connected men. Meanwhile, "unconnected" women and men remain left out.

Excuse me for not seeing that as a significant improvement.

> If you don't see the need for a group to which you'll never belong, just keep quiet.

Would you say that to anyone other than unconnected white men?

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