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Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents

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Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents

#71

Post by ctvo »

ozzythecat wrote: post #6

> The same Times investigation reported the company “intentionally limited upward mobility for hourly workers,” according to David Niekerk, a former Amazon HR Vice President. It’s not just for hourly workers. I was actively coached on holding promotions as a carrot. My leadership team would commit to unrealistic dates, taking input and estimates from dev teams but hand wave it. Amazon applies pressure on L7 and L6 so…

> It’s just a sweat shop.

Amazon engineer salaries are in the 90th+ percentile in the tech industry -- let's not bother comparing them to the typical American's income. They have almost unlimited mobility in their industry: They can find a job elsewhere anytime they want.

I remember you mentioning elsewhere that in 10 years of working at Amazon you're now financially independent. This isn't the outcome you usually see in a sweat shop.

I don't disagree that they have a culture of treating employees as expendable and are a harder place to work for than some other big tech companies but at some point a little perspective on your own privilege is healthy.

Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents

#72

Post by speed_spread »

I'm so glad I screwed a ski trip out of Amazon. Took me 3 hours of my life to pass the coding test, then the remote live coding interview. Then they paid the flight and hotel to meet and grill me in person. I asked for an extra hotel night "to look for houses". That day, I actually took a bus to $BIG_MOUNTAIN nearby and had the some of the best snowboard of my life. The interviews were shit, clearly designed not to know if I knew software but rather if was compliant and thick skinned enough to survive and perform in their shit culture. Fuck you Amazon. Thank you Amazon.

Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents

#73

Post by atkailash »

ozzythecat wrote: post #6

> The same Times investigation reported the company “intentionally limited upward mobility for hourly workers,” according to David Niekerk, a former Amazon HR Vice President. It’s not just for hourly workers. I was actively coached on holding promotions as a carrot. My leadership team would commit to unrealistic dates, taking input and estimates from dev teams but hand wave it. Amazon applies pressure on L7 and L6 so…

No post body was provided.

Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents

#74

Post by arinlen »

ctvo wrote: post #71
ozzythecat wrote: post #6

> The same Times investigation reported the company “intentionally limited upward mobility for hourly workers,” according to David Niekerk, a former Amazon HR Vice President. It’s not just for hourly workers. I was actively coached on holding promotions as a carrot. My leadership team would commit to unrealistic dates, taking input and estimates from dev teams but hand wave it. Amazon applies pressure on L7 and L6 so…

> It’s just a sweat shop. Amazon engineer salaries are in the 90th+ percentile in the tech industry -- let's not bother comparing them to the typical American's income. They have almost unlimited mobility in their industry: They can find a job elsewhere anytime they want. I remember you mentioning elsewhere that in 10 years of working at Amazon you're now financially independent. This isn't the outcome you usually se…

> Amazon engineer salaries are in the 90th+ percentile in the tech industry

FANG engineers are typically in the 99th percentile of tech excellence. Amazon engineers are not well paid when compared to professionals of the same league. Amazon SDE1s in Austin, Texas have a salary of around $120k/year and new hires have a total compensation package of around $160k/year. In Europe salary ranges for the same role go from €80k/year in northern countries and €40k/year in southern European countries. Check Glassdoor.

We're discussing positions and professionals which compete in a global stage.

Amazon is far from well paid for this sort of position. It's one of the key factors why Amazon SDEs tend to bail out after 2 or 3 years. They are smart enough to not bother with high stress, low-paying jobs .

Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents

#75

Post by PoignardAzur »

nivenkos wrote: post #41
satellites wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And the Indian devs work their ass off out of fear of getting PIP’d and with their work authorization, they lose their job means they have to leave the country. This matches what I saw at Nike. Though it was a bit less extreme, it was the same dynamic. Indian-born workers got paid half what the American-born workers did for the same SWE jobs. And Indian workers couldn’t complain or push back against unrealistic exp…

Same for us Europoors. Joining meetings at Seattle time (like 7-8pm CET), meanwhile you're being paid less than half of what the American engineers earn at the same level. But they know there's so few options in Europe so they set the salaries according to "local market conditions".

... Am I the only one looking at American companies offering me 3-digits salaries and going "holy shit, that's a really good deal"?

In my case, the company is extremely accommodating and doesn't schedule reunions at hours that are inconvenient for me, but even if they did, I'd still consider it worth it for the compensation they give out.

I dunno. Maybe I could get an even better deal if I pushed hard or if I unionized or whatever, but right now I just look at the fact that I'm getting 5x what a middle-school teacher gets while doing way less work, and I just... don't feel the anger?

(maybe other american companies pay a lot less, though)

Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents

#76

Post by arinlen »

philjohn wrote: post #68
emptysongglass wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is. We're getting paid peanuts compared to our American counterparts and we do the same work . What's worse is we pay higher taxes. The only way this changes is by European tech workers standing together and demanding matched salaries.

But the flip side is you don't have to save $,000s for your kids college tuition, generally much lower property tax and cheaper healthcare.

> But the flip side is you don't have to save $,000s for your kids college tuition, generally much lower property tax and cheaper healthcare.

Irrelevant. Just because you work for a US company that does not mean your kids should go to US colleges.

Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents

#77

Post by cratermoon »

pembrook wrote: post #43
Max-Ganz-II wrote: post #25

I stopped using Amazon for shopping about two years ago, because of how they treat warehouse staff. I never thought to work at Amazon, because I heard from multiple colleagues, former employees, that Amazon is profoundly metric based; then the stories such as this, about burning out staff, and about the fake PIP process, began surfacing.

Not shopping at Amazon because the company is big enough to get media attention is a bit silly. Do you know what the working conditions are like at any of the million non-Amazon warehouses? Of course not, there’s no media attention for Bob’s fulfillment in Wichita, Kansas. Here’s the truth: your friendly neighborhood warehouse down the street likely pays its employees far less, with far worse benefits, less safe faci…

The difference is that Bob's fulfillment isn't a billion dollar company with a CEO skimming billions of the top for himself. Bob probably pays himself a few times what his lowest paid employee makes. Bezos makes more money in a day than his lowest paid worker will earn in a lifetime.

Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents

#78

Post by ctvo »

arinlen wrote: post #74
ctvo wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s just a sweat shop. Amazon engineer salaries are in the 90th+ percentile in the tech industry -- let's not bother comparing them to the typical American's income. They have almost unlimited mobility in their industry: They can find a job elsewhere anytime they want. I remember you mentioning elsewhere that in 10 years of working at Amazon you're now financially independent. This isn't the outcome you usually se…

> Amazon engineer salaries are in the 90th+ percentile in the tech industry FANG engineers are typically in the 99th percentile of tech excellence. Amazon engineers are not well paid when compared to professionals of the same league. Amazon SDE1s in Austin, Texas have a salary of around $120k/year and new hires have a total compensation package of around $160k/year. In Europe salary ranges for the same role go from €…

> Amazon is far from well paid for this sort of position. It's one of the key factors why Amazon SDEs tend to bail out after 2 or 3 years. They are smart enough to not bother with high stress, low-paying jobs .

https://www.levels.fyi/companies/amazon/salaries/software-en...

https://www.levels.fyi/companies/apple/salaries/software-eng...

https://www.levels.fyi/companies/google/salaries/software-en...

https://www.levels.fyi/companies/facebook/salaries/software-...

https://www.levels.fyi/companies/microsoft/salaries/software...

Amazon is middle of the pack for big tech in total compensation. We don't need to speculate or speak in hyperbole. They certainly are not a "low-paying" job. The OP didn't stay in a low-paying job for 10 years and certainly didn't gain financial independence selling their Amazon stock because it was a low-paying job.

Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents

#79

Post by twomoonsbysurf »

dendriti wrote: post #70
pembrook wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not shopping at Amazon because the company is big enough to get media attention is a bit silly. Do you know what the working conditions are like at any of the million non-Amazon warehouses? Of course not, there’s no media attention for Bob’s fulfillment in Wichita, Kansas. Here’s the truth: your friendly neighborhood warehouse down the street likely pays its employees far less, with far worse benefits, less safe faci…

Right. Systemic problems require systemic solutions, and "voting with your wallet" is capitalist bullshit. They love to trot that one out, to make real change impossible.

No post body was provided.

Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents

#80

Post by MichaelZuo »

arinlen wrote: post #74
ctvo wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s just a sweat shop. Amazon engineer salaries are in the 90th+ percentile in the tech industry -- let's not bother comparing them to the typical American's income. They have almost unlimited mobility in their industry: They can find a job elsewhere anytime they want. I remember you mentioning elsewhere that in 10 years of working at Amazon you're now financially independent. This isn't the outcome you usually se…

> Amazon engineer salaries are in the 90th+ percentile in the tech industry FANG engineers are typically in the 99th percentile of tech excellence. Amazon engineers are not well paid when compared to professionals of the same league. Amazon SDE1s in Austin, Texas have a salary of around $120k/year and new hires have a total compensation package of around $160k/year. In Europe salary ranges for the same role go from €…

Amazon almost certainly isn't targeting the 99th percentile in their recruiting. The bulk of their software positions are interchangeable, likely by design.

They still offer pretty much the highest total comp and the best job prospects for 80th to 90th percentile graduates out of anywhere that I know of.

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