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Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

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Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#71

Post by telesilla »

gnfargbl wrote: post #4

> Less than a week after the plaintiff was fired, the Rijswijk branch of Chetu Inc. was deregistered from the Chamber of Commerce and shut down on 2 September, records show. So, it's a fair assumption that no organisation in the Netherlands is going to pay out as a result of this. What are the chances of the employee being able to enforce this judgment in a Florida court?

I was of the understanding that you cannot open a business in the Netherlands if you are not resident or have no local office - or does it simply require you have employees and pay the relevant taxes? It seems too easy for the owner to have gotten out of this without recourse.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#72

Post by ianai »

Unfortunately this is well within corporate “go away” money. They’ll gladly dish over 75k to get a threat off their books. It’s the corporate equivalent to stuffing 20 bucks in your pocket in case you’re held up while out on a run and don’t carry your wallet. Add a zero to make it 750k if you want corporations to think about it deeper.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#73

Post by bryanlarsen »

rocqua wrote: post #41
jacknews wrote: post #2

"insubordination" wtf, was this a job or a prison camp?

As others said, the dutch term is probably different. Their (bad) legal argument was. He refused to follow work instructions, hence he did not perform his work as required, hence we can fire him "op staande voet" which is an on the spot firing that does not require a long process of attempting to improve employee performance. They needed a 'op staande voet' firing because the long process takes months. The justificat…

(deleted, replied to wrong comment)

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#74

Post by bryanlarsen »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #3

>there was no urgent reason given to justify the immediate dismissal given.” He alleged that the termination was disproportionate Damn sweet. I wish we had such great employee protection laws in Austria, where the company/employer can terminate your employment relationship without any reason at all. >Less than a week after the plaintiff was fired, the Rijswijk branch of Chetu Inc. was deregistered from the Chamber of…

At one time I was told that it was very easy to fire someone in Denmark. I have no idea how true it is, but it was at a time when the Danish economy was doing much better than the German one, and the anecdote was trying to explain why.

It was a constrast of Denmark, Germany and the US. In Germany it was hard to fire somebody, so employers were reluctant to hire. Denmark & the US had no such troubles, but the difference between Denmark and the US was that a fired employee in the US loses health care, et cetera. OTOH the fired Danish employee falls into the generous Danish social security. The anecdote was that the Danish rules were the best of both worlds.

It's hearsay, but I found it convincing. Austrian social security isn't as good as Denmark's, IIRC, but it's much better than the US's, so perhaps Austria is close to the optimum of the guy telling me that anecdote?

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#75

Post by origin_path »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #24
yosamino wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true that in Austria you can be terminated for any reason at all. There are protections in place. For example, in the regular case, i.e. 'no urgent reason' there is no such thing as an immediate dismissal, and this can be fought. Of course as always with the law ymmv - but there are many different ways in which your rights as a worker are protected. See this: https://www.usp.gv.at/mitarbeiter/beendigung-arbeitsve…

>Not true that in Austria you can be terminated for any reason at all. There are protections in place. Not true at all what you claim about Austria. There are zero protections in place for workers here unless you're over 50 or work at a place with a union (worker's council) that will fight for you. If you work for a small tech company you have no protections against unfair dismissal. Basically your boss can tell you…

The US is the opposite of a third world country.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#76

Post by galangalalgol »

ianai wrote: post #72

Unfortunately this is well within corporate “go away” money. They’ll gladly dish over 75k to get a threat off their books. It’s the corporate equivalent to stuffing 20 bucks in your pocket in case you’re held up while out on a run and don’t carry your wallet. Add a zero to make it 750k if you want corporations to think about it deeper.

most people i know don't keep cash even in their wallet. Do people even want credit cards or IDs? Even phones track themselves and turn off. What do muggers take these days?

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#77

Post by s1artibartfast »

ianai wrote: post #72

Unfortunately this is well within corporate “go away” money. They’ll gladly dish over 75k to get a threat off their books. It’s the corporate equivalent to stuffing 20 bucks in your pocket in case you’re held up while out on a run and don’t carry your wallet. Add a zero to make it 750k if you want corporations to think about it deeper.

>Less than a week after the plaintiff was fired, the Rijswijk branch of Chetu Inc. was deregistered from the Chamber of Commerce and shut down on 2 September, records show. The branch was first registered in the Netherlands on 1 June 2013 with the capital declared at 10 million euros.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#78

Post by geek_at »

sebazzz wrote: post #36

I love it when US companies meet Dutch labor laws.

European in general. My wife works for a biotech company in Austria which was recently aquired by an american company and it's so funny to hear about their efforts to adapt to EU law and culture. Most of their training material is still unchanged from their US branch so there are things they list as benefits for all employees like

- 3 Weeks paid vacation (we get 5 by law)

- Health insurance (you know the drill)

- 3 weeks parental leave (we get 1 year for 80% pay, first 6 months full pay, then 5 years protection against dismissal)

- 5 days paid care leave for when your kid is sick (we get 12)

So their benefits which makes them think make them attactive are all below basic EU law that even store clerks get

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#79

Post by em-bee »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #24
yosamino wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true that in Austria you can be terminated for any reason at all. There are protections in place. For example, in the regular case, i.e. 'no urgent reason' there is no such thing as an immediate dismissal, and this can be fought. Of course as always with the law ymmv - but there are many different ways in which your rights as a worker are protected. See this: https://www.usp.gv.at/mitarbeiter/beendigung-arbeitsve…

>Not true that in Austria you can be terminated for any reason at all. There are protections in place. Not true at all what you claim about Austria. There are zero protections in place for workers here unless you're over 50 or work at a place with a union (worker's council) that will fight for you. If you work for a small tech company you have no protections against unfair dismissal. Basically your boss can tell you…

you seem to mix up something. termination with advance notice is a normal process and pretty much always possible. i doubt there is any country in the world where you can't terminate employees with sufficient advance notice. the periods for advance notice differ but the process is otherwise the same in austria or in germany for example. and i am pretty sure most EU countries are similar. i only heard about france having much stricter rules for termination. so how is austria worse in that regard?

in this particular example, the legal date for termination in austria would have been december 31st (because by default it is 6 weeks notice after august 26, to the nearest quarter) in germany it would have been september 30th.

and for termination without notice

https://www.arbeitnehmer.at/kuendigung/entlassung/

pretty clearly spells out the reasons when someone can be fired, which contradicts your claim that people can be fired for no reason.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#80

Post by ineedasername »

he was ordered to take part in a virtual training period called a "Corrective Action Program."

This is the sort of name given to processes uses when an employee is already performing below expectations. (Where I work it’s a more euphemistic Performance Improvement). If that’s the case here then his firing was a bit less sudden than it appears. Though the entire monitoring process seems draconian regardless.

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