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iPhone = Privacy?

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Re: iPhone = Privacy?

#71

Post by matai_kolila »

michaelt wrote: post #64
esotericimpl wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly would an apple employee be able to access my icloud account? I understand that the icloud data is encrypted in the cloud and the decryption key is part of signing onto icloud via 2 factor to authorize the device. Would an apple employee be able to view icloud without the 2nd factor to pull down the decryption key?

icloud data isn't end-to-end encrypted, so there are undoubtedly some employees who can view icloud data. In a well-run organisation this power would only be available to a small number of employees, would require a good reason and multiple people's authorisation, and would produce audit records. Is Apple such an organisation? Nobody knows.

> icloud data isn't end-to-end encrypted, so there are undoubtedly some employees who can view icloud data.

This is more FUD; it doesn't need to be e2e encrypted to prevent an Apple employee (who isn't breaking a litany of laws and/or company policies) from viewing iCloud data.

I'm... just tired of baseless accusations like this, so casually thrown around. I've worked in this industry for 15 years, and when something like this is specifically possible, we say so because we have specific knowledge about how it would actually happen, not general "Yeah sure probably."

We have to do better, because if we don't, we sound like chicken littles and people just ignore us.

Re: iPhone = Privacy?

#73

Post by fsflover »

scarface74 wrote: post #68
fsflover wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does only if the hardware kill switch is on. You control it. Also, it doesn't send anything else to anyone.

If the cellphone carrier has your IMEI and location so do third parties that they sell it to and law enforcement. https://9to5mac.com/2022/07/22/carrier-location-data/

It's true. At least with a hardware kill switch, you know exactly when they do not have this information about you.

Re: iPhone = Privacy?

#74

Post by pwinnski »

v0idzer0 wrote: post #13

iPhone = Not perfect but better than all comparable alternatives Perhaps the biggest advantage of the iPhone, aside from Apple making most of their money selling real products not your data, is that every concern he had was accompanied by a setting to disable it

Every concern he had that wasn't based on fabrication, yes.

Airplane mode leaves the cellular radio on? Not according to signal tests!

Re: iPhone = Privacy?

#75

Post by rickdeckard »

hardnose wrote: post #14

Apple seems to prioritize privacy more than the competition, while for Google collecting, and combing through to monetize, your personal data is a big part of their business model. Much of this criticism seems misplaced or invalid. Apple tracks your IMEI? Well, sure, unless you choose otherwise, and they've given you a convenient place to turn off. Apple chipsets track your location down to the meter? Well, yes, that…

> Apple seems to prioritize privacy more than the competition, while for Google collecting, and combing through to monetize, your personal data is a big part of their business model.

It's puzzling to me how this keeps getting repeated without any strong foundation. This story that others sell your data while Apple holds it secure is a narrative established by Apple that keeps coming up like a mantra.

The implication is that Google is gathering personal data to then then sell it to third parties.

But this is not their business model. They profile their customers via their behaviors and personal data, match them to a persona and then sell services to third parties to advertise to users fitting that persona.

I don't see how Apple is doing any less of customer profiling and persona generating than Google. They are both in the business of profiling their users and then monetizing them by offering services to internal/external customers who look for a certain audience.

The core of this is exactly the same between Apple and Google. Neither of them is selling the user-data directly, they both process it in order to package their users into a service they can sell to others.

The main thing that Apple does differently is, that they took stronger measures to ensure that the data THEY collect from their users can only be collected by THEM.

So Apple took action to protect their unique market position of selling ANY kind of goods to users of Apple products, and they claim that they are more honorable to hold and process all your data for financial gain just because (so far) they failed to compete in the advertising industry.

Re: iPhone = Privacy?

#76

Post by CharlesW »

falcolas wrote: post #60
hardnose wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There's many stories from workers at these third parties about how much intimate detail they've heard when listening to these clips. Assuming those internet stories are even true - can anyone show me actual harm occurring to anyone based on Apple's use of Siri training? I've heard some Alexa stories, but frankly, Apple seems to do a really good job of protecting that information, at least so far, at least as far as…

A lack of reported harm does not imply a lack of the ability to harm. "Siri, order medicine X and deliver to address Y" is a simple example of how a simple command - whether valid or not - can expose someone's medical history, and while an ethical reviewer (probably 99%+ of reviewers) would do nothing with it, an unethical reviewer could.

> "Siri, order medicine X and deliver to address Y" is a simple example of how a simple command…

FWIW, Siri isn't capable of anything resembling this. For fun, ask "Siri, how many days are left in this year?"

Re: iPhone = Privacy?

#77

Post by falcolas »

CharlesW wrote: post #76
falcolas wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lack of reported harm does not imply a lack of the ability to harm. "Siri, order medicine X and deliver to address Y" is a simple example of how a simple command - whether valid or not - can expose someone's medical history, and while an ethical reviewer (probably 99%+ of reviewers) would do nothing with it, an unethical reviewer could.

> "Siri, order medicine X and deliver to address Y" is a simple example of how a simple command… FWIW, Siri isn't capable of anything resembling this. For fun, ask "Siri, how many days are left in this year?"

Which I acknowledged in the following four words.

Not all commands are valid, but the invalid commands are reviewed as much (perhaps even more) than the valid ones. "Was it incorrectly invalid" is a question I, as a developer, would want to know.

Re: iPhone = Privacy?

#78

Post by kornhole »

kraf wrote: post #39

I feel that GrapheneOS is a good compromise. It's significantly more private than an iPhone and after 2 years of using it I really don't feel like I'm missing out on anything.

Couple that with a Nextcloud instance, and you are golden. This private cloud is where you can synchronize your contacts, calendar, photos, files, bookmarks, passwords, location, news, podcasts, music, tasks, notes and host chats and video calls.

To mitigate telco surveillance, switch your number to VOIP and use burner SIM's or pretty good phone privacy.

Re: iPhone = Privacy?

#79

Post by smaccona »

jeffbee wrote: post #67
HunterWare wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh, I use Google Maps daily too and have never had a popup since the first time I used it and picked "While using". I could have picked "Always", which worked too, but choose not to for reasons outlined in other posts here. You can also easily turn off "Maps" tracking or limit it the same way if you choose. I got to admit that I don't see the meat in this burger, so to speak.

If you go into privacy settings and try to disable the “system services” it will prompt you, twice, with a big scary warning about how nothing on your iPhone will ever work again.

I can go into Settings -> Maps -> Location -> Never, and then when I use Apple Maps it says "Location Services is off" and can't figure out where I am. Is that different than what you are talking about?

Re: iPhone = Privacy?

#80

Post by kornhole »

hardnose wrote: post #14

Apple seems to prioritize privacy more than the competition, while for Google collecting, and combing through to monetize, your personal data is a big part of their business model. Much of this criticism seems misplaced or invalid. Apple tracks your IMEI? Well, sure, unless you choose otherwise, and they've given you a convenient place to turn off. Apple chipsets track your location down to the meter? Well, yes, that…

Because the code of IOS is closed source, we have to trust these settings actually stop transmitting data back to Apple. Given how valuable such data is to central collectors, this trust is a big leap for some of us. Comparing Apple to Google is a false dichotomy since many alternatives now exist.
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