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Reading Soviet Sci-Fi at the End of the World

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Re: Reading Soviet Sci-Fi at the End of the World

#71

Post by bootsup »

unity1001 wrote: post #56
pessimizer wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That strongly influences, actually directly shapes, what works does the writer or the artist produces. You're putting the cart before the horse.

Nope. We are all products of our culture. Our parents, our upbringing, education in school. Our friends. Our first experiences, and of course, the ideology that we have obtained during the process. The ideology mostly comes built into the society's culture, education and work life. So there is no such thing as 'ideologically neutral' or "I don't have an ideology". Its just that people think that the ideology that the…

Yes, although sometimes people feel their country is not normal. "In a normal country, this would not happen," many Russian people said, especially in the '90s between Yeltsin's US-backed coup and the 1998 collapse.

Re: Reading Soviet Sci-Fi at the End of the World

#72

Post by bootsup »

p_l wrote: post #34
myth_drannon wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But wasn't Poland occupying the city from 1918-1939? It was Austro-Hungarian city beforehand? Also I wouldn't characterize Soviet occupation as bad luck and Polish as a heaven on earth. Yes, he was born in 1921, 3 years after Polish army invaded the city and terrorized it. I don't know enough history about the period until 1939, but just extrapolating 1918 events to the whole period of Polish occupation.

Lwów was probably most Polish city in the region, and generally what's now Western Ukraine had skewed towards polish in cities and ukrainian in rural areas. In reality, for as late as 1939 the main differences were language and religion, and considerable chunk of rural population considered themselves "locals" not linking with nation-state idea. This reflects on Commonwealth being rather multi-ethnic and Austro-Hunga…

Eastern and Central European history has less stable borders/states than Western/Northern Europeans and Americans often assume. Nationalities existed under various empires without much state-aspirational nationalism until the 19th century. People practicing various religions, speaking various languages lived under changing lords or free in the wild fields, then fled en masse in times of conflict and lived somewhere else. Forced mass-conversions and massacres changed demographics a number of times over the last thousand years. Bureaucracies remained largely intact through their posession by empires, soviets, then nation(ish)-states.

Modern states in the region are real, but contingent, and shouldn't falsely be projected backwards through history.

Re: Reading Soviet Sci-Fi at the End of the World

#73

Post by golergka »

przefur wrote: post #22
yaky wrote: post #9

I originally read Roadside Picnic as a teen, which, at the time, impressed me as an exciting sci-fi adventure. When I re-read it as a young adult, i saw it as a rather depressing tale asking the questions of sacrifice and duty. My other favorite by Strugatskys is A Billion Years Before The End Of The World (translated as Definitely Maybe), which you can read as a somewhat humorous story involving paranormal events, o…

I've had similar thoughts regarding the roadside picnic, the older I am, the more depressing it feels. I would highly recommend another Strugatskys book - 'Monday starts on Saturday', it is pure humor, as opposed to other works of theirs. It's about a soviet scientist that joins government's study on magic. Bureaucracy never been funnier, of course outside of 'The Twelve Tasks of Asterix', 1976.

> It's about a soviet scientist

It's actually about a soviet software engineer, and A LOT of the things in this book is still very relevant to our trade today.

Re: Reading Soviet Sci-Fi at the End of the World

#74

Post by golergka »

thriftwy wrote: post #19

The protestors in Russia (the small number which is still on the streets) likely did not read any Soviet Sci-Fi at all. What they read is Harry Potter. The parable from Soviet Sci-Fi to the current events is quite confusing. It's an attempt to create a narrative where there isn't.

> The protestors in Russia (the small number which is still on the streets) likely did not read any Soviet Sci-Fi at all

Yeah, that's completely false. As someone who has been on these streets and it these political circles for a LONG time, I can with confidence tell you that vast majority were familiar with at least most (if not all) writers in that list.

Re: Reading Soviet Sci-Fi at the End of the World

#75

Post by monista »

golergka wrote: post #73
przefur wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had similar thoughts regarding the roadside picnic, the older I am, the more depressing it feels. I would highly recommend another Strugatskys book - 'Monday starts on Saturday', it is pure humor, as opposed to other works of theirs. It's about a soviet scientist that joins government's study on magic. Bureaucracy never been funnier, of course outside of 'The Twelve Tasks of Asterix', 1976.

> It's about a soviet scientist It's actually about a soviet software engineer, and A LOT of the things in this book is still very relevant to our trade today.

Rather programmer than software engineer, I think that that time, his work was mainly just calculate something, not to write software products and such.

Incidentally, the spirit of the book fits both communistic, and hacker's views: work overtime, because you like it, not for an extra reward.

Re: Reading Soviet Sci-Fi at the End of the World

#76

Post by monista »

yaky wrote: post #9

I originally read Roadside Picnic as a teen, which, at the time, impressed me as an exciting sci-fi adventure. When I re-read it as a young adult, i saw it as a rather depressing tale asking the questions of sacrifice and duty. My other favorite by Strugatskys is A Billion Years Before The End Of The World (translated as Definitely Maybe), which you can read as a somewhat humorous story involving paranormal events, o…

I agree about Definitely Maybe, or, rather, I disagree that it can be read as humorous, but can't agree more that it's great, considering its philosophical or psychological depth.

Re: Reading Soviet Sci-Fi at the End of the World

#77

Post by thriftwy »

trhway wrote: post #67
thriftwy wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an ample comparsion but may I remind you that Inhabited Island's plot did not resolve by the means of street protests, nor did it resolve at all even after the regime fell?

That is the point. Post Putin Russia isn't going to magically change and become a happy place. Society can't change overnight and humans can't significantly, if any, expand their mental horizon fast (even when it is supposedly advanced humans and society of the the future and when presented with tremendously wonderful new aspects of reality) - that goes through several Strugatskis works (Hard to be a God, Roadside Pi…

I can't say that Putin's Russia is a particularly unhappy place, especially taking into account the bad things one carries inside and will surely transplant wherever they land. And compared to the thing the world now wants to build here, which is also described in post-soviet social fiction.

In Inhabited Island, Maxim takes some time to ponder whether the society he appeared in is actually unhappy and needs any help, considering its level of develoment.

Re: Reading Soviet Sci-Fi at the End of the World

#78

Post by monista »

protomolecule wrote: post #39
yaky wrote: post #9

I originally read Roadside Picnic as a teen, which, at the time, impressed me as an exciting sci-fi adventure. When I re-read it as a young adult, i saw it as a rather depressing tale asking the questions of sacrifice and duty. My other favorite by Strugatskys is A Billion Years Before The End Of The World (translated as Definitely Maybe), which you can read as a somewhat humorous story involving paranormal events, o…

Interesting, I read 'A Billion Years Before The End Of The World' as a book about facing hard choices in life.

That's what constitute a great book: many meanings can coexist there, and one isn't not right reading it this or that way.

Re: Reading Soviet Sci-Fi at the End of the World

#79

Post by monista »

jeejay wrote: post #13
omega3 wrote: post #2

Lem wasn't Soviet, he was Polish. It's strange he also considers Victor Pelevin to be a Soviet writer as all his novels were released after 1991.

Also Pelevin is a postmodernist rather than a sci-fi writer

The genre he works in is often described as hyper-realism.

Re: Reading Soviet Sci-Fi at the End of the World

#80

Post by thriftwy »

cf141q5325 wrote: post #68
thriftwy wrote: post #19

The protestors in Russia (the small number which is still on the streets) likely did not read any Soviet Sci-Fi at all. What they read is Harry Potter. The parable from Soviet Sci-Fi to the current events is quite confusing. It's an attempt to create a narrative where there isn't.

>What they read is Harry Potter. Russia has some truly great fantasy series of their own. I never tire of recommending Lukyanenkos Night Watch series. Especially in contrast to trope heavy feel good stuff like Harry Potter that falls back to the heroic fight against ultimate villains. In contrast even the magic system of Night Watch throws the difficulty of the shades of grey in your face. Its especially nice that th…

I get it, but people calling themself Russian opposition today are oblivious to any shades of grey. For them, Lukyanenko is a vatnik (a popular ethno-political slur not unlike "redneck") and nazi, case closed. Same with his comrade SF writer Oleg Divov. There are no shades of grey in political twitter. If Lukyanenko dies tomorrow, it would be a loud celebration for Russian opposition, whatever is left of it - another Putin's rag quacked. Like they celebrated the death of Darya Dugina and posted ironic memes about that.

I could recommend them a Russian (or Ukrainian) writer or two who are likely sharing their world views today, but they just aren't the booky type in general. Why read more books when you get the knowledge of the current thing from Twitter. And the general life framework from Harry Potter. I don't even think you have to read that one to the end. Most of the memes like the magic hat are in the book one.

I would say that the low quality and race to the bottom in Russian opposition is one of the pillars that lets Putin remain in his chair uncontested. And they keep digging. They reproduce by managing to recruit a new generation of even worse youth.

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