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Cheating at chess with a computer for my shoes

incoherency.co.uk

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Re: Cheating at chess with a computer for my shoes

#71

Post by john-radio »

adanto6840 wrote: post #63
cortesoft wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was a long time ago so my memory might be fuzzy, but I believe he played on pokerroom.com... the cheating part of it, from my memory, was that the tracking software had access to mucked hands, which normal players at the table wouldn't have access to.

For most of the sites, the software was reading the text-based "hand history" to collect data. When hands were mucked at showdown, the contents of the mucked hands generally appeared in the plain-text hand history (and most UIs provided a way to view them or to replay the hand action-by-action). There were a couple of sites where this wasn't the case, or where the hand history wasn't provided in a simple text format…

Good reminder that any web site's policy that's enforced in the UI, but isn't enforced in its backend API, is really just a polite request.

Re: Cheating at chess with a computer for my shoes

#72

Post by justinlloyd »

Inserts self-promotional link to a "Scrabble board solver on a smart watch that can analyze the game board using the smart watch's camera, the tiles you currently hold, and the optimal word to play" and then walks away whistling.

Just wait until innocuous looking smart glasses show up.

Re: Cheating at chess with a computer for my shoes

#73

Post by aoeusnth1 »

stouset wrote: post #70
CSMastermind wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are "computer moves" which stand out vs human players. These normally show up in lines where there are many options of roughly equal value and the computer picks a move that is infinitesimally better but out of 'theme' with the position. They can also show up when for instance there are multiple checkmates in a position. The computer will choose the one requiring the least number of moves even if it requires de…

> There are "computer moves" which stand out vs human players. These normally show up in lines where there are many options of roughly equal value and the computer picks a move that is infinitesimally better but out of 'theme' with the position. To elaborate on this, humans use pattern recognition to identify themes within a position. This is a shortcut that prevents needing to mentally brute-force your way down an e…

If this interests anyone reading this, check out this Daniel Naroditsky video where he analyzes positions with some astounding engine moves which are very difficult for humans to see, but do have logical reasons for why they work: https://youtu.be/GdaU7wpOArs

Re: Cheating at chess with a computer for my shoes

#74

Post by caminante »

icelancer wrote: post #7
michaelwm wrote: post #5

Though I'm not much of a poker player myself, I am friends with many professionals who have found success both online and offline, in games from pot-limit omaha to no-limit hold-em. Cheating in online poker has been around for many years, with varying success by online gaming companies to implement anti-cheat measures in their software. With recent developments in AI, there is renewed discussion about cheating as the…

Oh yeah. Mike Postle was 100% cheating and getting fed moves from a confederate. But even if he wasn't, this type of setup with communication could simply maximize imperfect information, run it through a "solver" (which is what poker players call their game engines), and return the best plays. More on the Mike Postle thing in this twoplustwo thread, or of course, Google: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-vie…

What a coincidence!

I stumbled onto and down the Mike Postle rabbit-hole. [0] It's astonishing that he was blatantly able to peek at his phone, period, and he never got caught!

My favorite is the hand where they're playing PLO (with 4 pre-flop cards) and the game overlay is still NLH (2 pre-flop cards). Postle freaks out trying to re-scan the RFID of his pre-flop cards. The behavior makes no sense unless...Postle knew (via his phone) that the game mode was wrong, and he couldn't see his opponents' hands.

I'm assuming you have, but if you haven't breezed through Doug's channel, it's fascinating and really approachable. If I were playing online poker, I'd be paranoid that someone is using live assist.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kDtE9vrRiA

Re: Cheating at chess with a computer for my shoes

#75

Post by jonwachob91 »

systemvoltage wrote: post #11
sharedfrog wrote: post #3

This is relevant to today's events because Magnus Carlsen just withdrew from a tournament[1] after yesterday's loss to a significantly lower rated opponent who had previously been suspended for cheating on chess.com. The tournament organizers have also implemented additional anti-cheating protocols starting today. Whatever comes out of these accusations, the chess world will sure enjoy its new infusion of drama. [1]…

Hans seems like a cool guy, I watched his interview afterwards. PowerPlayChess covered the game, it was a magnificent performance but also not perfect: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n27zd_dVtFw Those saying it he got banned on chess.com, it was total bullshit, here it is of how it happened live on Han's stream when he was an IM: https://livestreamfails.com/post/84343 More info here, if he was really cheating he wou…

Hans admitted to Chess.com he cheated, that's why he was allowed back in cash tournaments such as Titled Tuesday.

Firouzja was 11 years old at the time of his ban and he was an unknown commodity at the time. He was quickly unbanned b/c it was revealed that he was just a kid developing very fast.

Hans' situation and Firouzja's situation are not the same.

Re: Cheating at chess with a computer for my shoes

#76

Post by searealist »

squidbeak wrote: post #49
icelancer wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, somehow I missed this. Pretty wild accusations from Magnus and Hikaru on this. Hans just had a horrific tournament in his last attempt, which makes this whole thing pretty interesting. Hans didn't play engine perfect lines when beating Magnus in the Sinquefield Cup, though he obviously played extremely accurately.

Ignoring the lines (and any cheat at this level would be canny enough to avoid the top few engine moves), there's something seriously off about Niemann's analysis - shallowness and incoherence covered over with bluster. Even Ramirez seemed disdainful of his reasoning about his position against Firoujia tonight. It's pretty grim for him if he really didn't cheat. He won't be invited to a tournament involving Magnus ag…

Are you accusing him of cheating today despite the 15 minute delay and heightened security?

Re: Cheating at chess with a computer for my shoes

#77

Post by pgwhalen »

systemvoltage wrote: post #69
FreakLegion wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it was one of the best chess interviews ever It was, but for reasons having nothing to do with his analysis of the game. Stronger players like Hikaru have dismantled Hans' last two interviews pretty convincingly[1]. Those interviews and his history of being banned from chess.com seem to be driving the current speculation more than Hans' actual play. The interview after Magnus was great because Hans was saying thing…

I don't want to defend Hans further, but Alireza and many other GM's have been falsely banned on Chess.com. It means absolutely nothing . All I suggest is to stop this speculation, let's wait for evidence and if it is true, then fuck Hans. But at this point, I am just seeing a giant mob coming after him including on HN which is kind of appalling. We need to be better including Hikaru Nakamura, he seems to be also doi…

Crucially, Alireza was banned because of his skyrocketing rating (which is of course indirectly an indication of potential cheating), not because of suspicious play.

Re: Cheating at chess with a computer for my shoes

#78

Post by daniel-cussen »

For this sort of thing you have to always tell some authority first, before doing it, and have them approve of the reason. Like a judge of the Law, a grandmaster, something like that. And if she/he refuses don't ask anybody else, no forum shopping, you can ask the same authority again after many intervening interactions a single second time, or allow him to return to you. Or put it on the blockchain, there has to be a commitment is the term of art. It's cheating after all, there has to be integrity from before the fact.

You have any idea what happens when you dogmatically refuse to cheat?

Re: Cheating at chess with a computer for my shoes

#79

Post by bo1024 »

icelancer wrote: post #4
sharedfrog wrote: post #3

This is relevant to today's events because Magnus Carlsen just withdrew from a tournament[1] after yesterday's loss to a significantly lower rated opponent who had previously been suspended for cheating on chess.com. The tournament organizers have also implemented additional anti-cheating protocols starting today. Whatever comes out of these accusations, the chess world will sure enjoy its new infusion of drama. [1]…

Wow, somehow I missed this. Pretty wild accusations from Magnus and Hikaru on this. Hans just had a horrific tournament in his last attempt, which makes this whole thing pretty interesting. Hans didn't play engine perfect lines when beating Magnus in the Sinquefield Cup, though he obviously played extremely accurately.

It doesn't sound like Magnus has made any accusation, right?

Re: Cheating at chess with a computer for my shoes

#80

Post by zibby8 »

sharedfrog wrote: post #3

This is relevant to today's events because Magnus Carlsen just withdrew from a tournament[1] after yesterday's loss to a significantly lower rated opponent who had previously been suspended for cheating on chess.com. The tournament organizers have also implemented additional anti-cheating protocols starting today. Whatever comes out of these accusations, the chess world will sure enjoy its new infusion of drama. [1]…

Is there any evidence Hans Niemann was suspended specifically for cheating? I’ve seen multiple unsubstantiated claims, but no source that definitively states he was suspended for cheating.
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