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Help Improve Gnome

blogs.gnome.org

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Re: Help Improve Gnome

#71

Post by bxparks »

modo_mario wrote: post #32
bxparks wrote: post #10

I used to use GNOME for many years, mostly because it was the default on Ubuntu. Now it's one of my least favorite desktops, I'll use almost anything else. I got frustrated at the seemingly random, user-hostile, backwards-incompatible changes from one version to the next. From my rough memory: * The desktop icons and click-and-drag shortcuts got removed a few years ago. This is a GUI workflow that I've been using on…

I wonder. What are your thoughts on KDE plasma?

I used KDE back in the 2004-2007 time frame then switched to GNOME. Back then, I think GNOME was similar enough to KDE that I hardly noticed much difference. I haven't used KDE since then, but I take it for a spin every 2 years just to see what's going on:

* Ubuntu KDE (Kubuntu 22.04) is one of the few Ubuntu flavors (I think Lubuntu was the other one) that would not automatically scale the font for my 2560x1440 14" screen. So I literally could not read anything in the Installer. I had to peer through a magnifying glass to make it through the installer. Even after logging in, the fonts were so small, I had to keep using the magnifying glass to find the Display (or Monitors?) control panel to set that 175% or 200% option (or was it the 1600x900 screen size option).

* Some (most?) of the various desktop icons seem to be specified in raw pixels. For example, the task bar at the bottom was set to some pixel size which was impossible to read on my laptop screen.

* The KDE UI paradigm seemed familiar, like Windows XP or Windows 7. But the enormous number of configuration options seemed overwhelming for someone who doesn't use KDE all the time.

I normally spend most of my time in the Terminal window and the Firefox browser. I actually don't do a lot of stuff in the graphical desktop. So I want my desktop to be functional but stay mostly out of my way and not require too much configuring and maintenance. KDE always seemed a bit too high maintenance for me.

Re: Help Improve Gnome

#72

Post by pjmlp »

bezier-curve wrote: post #59
pjmlp wrote: post #9

No need for a tool, it is quite easy. Stop using JavaScript all over the place, use compiled languages. Don't outsource basic features to extensions, or third party tools. Bring basic stuff like thumbnails and desktop folders back.

> Stop using JavaScript all over the place, use compiled languages. This is one of the things I like about GNOME. There is something to be said about a tech stack that's accessible and easy enough to use.

Compiled languages are accessible.

Re: Help Improve Gnome

#73

Post by pjmlp »

3836293648 wrote: post #62
pjmlp wrote: post #9

No need for a tool, it is quite easy. Stop using JavaScript all over the place, use compiled languages. Don't outsource basic features to extensions, or third party tools. Bring basic stuff like thumbnails and desktop folders back.

Gnome removing desktop icons was amazing. Stopping average users from hurting themselves is a good thing, especially when they're still there for the advanced users that are dumb enough to still want them

They managed to remove me from their user base.

Once upon a time I used to advocate for GNOME, including an article about Gtkmm on the The C/C++ User's Journal.

Now I just use XFCE on the surviving Linux netbook I still own.

Re: Help Improve Gnome

#74

Post by rhamzeh »

pmontra wrote: post #53

> sudo snap install --classic gnome-info-collect I was tempted to install it but it's a snap on Ubuntu. I don't really like that Canonical is pushing snap so much. Hopefully it will go the way of Unity but it will take too long for me. I'm considering to switch to a different distribution, Debian derived.

I faced the same dilemma. I despise snap. I wanted something Debian based too, but I ended up biting the bullet and crossing over to Fedora Silverblue - it's different than the normal Fedora builds, in it's intentional design for Flatpaks + Podman being the core and minimizing system wide installations.

It worked really well for me, and somehow even better system support* than I had with Ubuntu, something I didn't think was possible.

* Better system support: as in 0 issues sleeping/waking from sleep, reading from fingerprint reader, connecting to bluetooth, switching sound output, connecting controllers, and switching between different multi monitor setups. I mean Ubuntu was great, miles better than my work provided Macbook Pro (that is a study in frustration), but the Fedora Silverblue installation ups the ante, pure gnome is also slightly better than Ubuntu's tweaks.

Re: Help Improve Gnome

#75

Post by thebeardisred »

In the words of Bartleby the Scrivener... "I'd prefer not to..."

I've spent years fighting through many small cuts, many of which are focused around the opinionation of GNOME developers. Plenty of issues around the screenshot tools, the dumbing down of settings around wireless and/or networking configuration.

Re: Help Improve Gnome

#76

Post by lokedhs »

asoneth wrote: post #70
smoldesu wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I'm also glad that the GNOME folks have decided to chart a different path even when that results in the occasional (or not-so-occasional) design misstep I would agree with this if GNOME also didn't treat their own technologies as an all-or-nothing scenario. One of the biggest problems I have is that GNOME is genuinely incapable of admitting when they're wrong; to a lesser extent with stuff like implementing EGL…

Is there an example you have in mind where they were objectively wrong and did not admit it? In the examples I've seen their decisions generally seem reasonable and well-considered, even in cases where I disagreed with the outcome. The most I can say is that it might benefit some contributors to consider tone and messaging a little. With respect to closing tickets, unless someone is paying for the work I generally cl…

I can think of one specific case. At some point, it all of a sudden wasn't possibly to disable cursor blinking in gnome-terminal anymore.

It's fixed now, but it took years and absolutely no admission that perhaps they didn't handle it very well.

The entire story is outlined here. https://geoff.greer.fm/2016/08/26/gnome-terminal-cursor-blin...

Re: Help Improve Gnome

#77

Post by pjmlp »

ho_schi wrote: post #27
bxparks wrote: post #10

I used to use GNOME for many years, mostly because it was the default on Ubuntu. Now it's one of my least favorite desktops, I'll use almost anything else. I got frustrated at the seemingly random, user-hostile, backwards-incompatible changes from one version to the next. From my rough memory: * The desktop icons and click-and-drag shortcuts got removed a few years ago. This is a GUI workflow that I've been using on…

Why is GNOME like GNOME? https://ometer.com/free-software-ui.html I recommend to read this! You will understand a lot about GNOME. They learned a lesson to keep things simple for the user. But the reason for five clocks is probably, that neither provides the important preferences for a lot users. Ubuntu Please don't think that Ubuntu is using GNOME. It is a massively patched and themed version of GNOME, mixing packag…

Without Canonical's improvements GNOME is even more painful to use.

Re: Help Improve Gnome

#78

Post by pjmlp »

NayamAmarshe wrote: post #67
3836293648 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gnome removing desktop icons was amazing. Stopping average users from hurting themselves is a good thing, especially when they're still there for the advanced users that are dumb enough to still want them

If the point of the Linux desktop is more choices then I'd say Gnome is kinda against that philosophy. They're the Apple of the Linux world and not in a very good way either.

If only, at least macOS has a proper desktop framework.

Re: Help Improve Gnome

#79

Post by anton96 »

3836293648 wrote: post #62
pjmlp wrote: post #9

No need for a tool, it is quite easy. Stop using JavaScript all over the place, use compiled languages. Don't outsource basic features to extensions, or third party tools. Bring basic stuff like thumbnails and desktop folders back.

Gnome removing desktop icons was amazing. Stopping average users from hurting themselves is a good thing, especially when they're still there for the advanced users that are dumb enough to still want them

What is the rationale behind removing desktop icons ?

Re: Help Improve Gnome

#80

Post by boneitis »

bxparks wrote: post #22
kirbyfan64sos wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think one version of Ubuntu GNOME obscured the login screen. I installed it, saw no login screen, clicked everywhere, but nothing happened. Just stared at a desktop wallpaper. If I recall, I eventually figured out that I had to swipe up a little arrow at the bottom of the screen, but using a mouse. Why? You can press any key to go past that screen.

Would you believe that it took me 1-2 years to figure that out? I swiped that little arrow awkwardly with my mouse for 1-2 years, before I accidentally hit a key to get that login screen. I think the issue was that I'm sitting in front of a graphical user interface , which to me means using a mouse . It never occurred to me that I had to hit a key on a keyboard to get a login screen on a graphical user interface. I t…

What's hard to believe is that you muscled through it for 1-2 years before jumping ship to MATE :) But yes, that painful experience of helplessly clicking everywhere on the login screen for a really long time like a moron is seared into my memory.

I just remember that at around the time 3 dropped, Mint (with default desktops Cinnamon and MATE) took the top of the list on distrowatch, and that's when I made the switch from Ubuntu.

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