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Psychedelic drugs take on depression

nature.com

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Re: Psychedelic drugs take on depression

#71

Post by arcticbull »

esperent wrote: post #51
colechristensen wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a reminder: "Depression" is just a label put on a cluster of symptoms to make diagnoses consistent across medical providers. It is definitely not a singular condition with one cause and a consistent treatment across patients. It is likely a multitude of conditions which will respond differently to many treatments. Some people with a depression diagnosis will be very disappointed with ketamine treatment.

No doubt, but that applies to all depression treatments. Most of which have a far higher risk of side effects, and many of which take weeks or months to show an effect if they do work. Ketamine treatment takes an hour, with virtually no chance of side effects, and you'll know if it works within a few hours. Even if it only works for a tiny percentage of depression sufferers, it should be first line treatment. As it i…

Not just that it's important to remember that many studies have questioned whether antidepressants are at all better than placebo for the treatment of depression in the first place. [1] Some say no, some say yes statistically significant but not meaningful clinically. [2]

The reality is psychedelics may be the only meaningful medical treatment we actually have for depression.

[1] https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20080227/antidepres...

[2] https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2019.0040...

Re: Psychedelic drugs take on depression

#72

Post by tasty_freeze »

jokoon wrote: post #61
tasty_freeze wrote: post #56

There are many personal anecdotes about how one treatment was a game changer. I don't doubt them, but as the article says, it doesn't work for everyone. I am posting this as a counterweight to all the glowing reports. My wife has some chronic health conditions (EDS and ME/CFS and depression); I'm sure they are at least partially related. While ramping off of one antidepressant in anticipation of trying something diff…

if it's so dependent on the environment, then the drug just doesn't work in general, meaning it's not viable. if doctors are unable to find ways to make a drug work and predict it, then it's pointless. A 4 days vacation every month will have better results, and it's something most therapists and psychiatrist also say, that lifestyle matters. If a drug cannot do better than lifestyle change, then the drug doesn't work…

Some cancer patients respond well to a given chemotherapy while others don't. Some people get vaccinated and gain protection while others get sick. Some people smoke marijuana and get euphoria while others get paranoid, and others are unaffected. I guess those drugs are nonviable and pointless.

To someone suffering from clinical depression or an anxiety disorder, your cavalier suggestion to just take a four day vacation is laughable.

If people who spend their lives wrestling with difficult issues and you think you can just chime in with an obvious solution, it is a good clue that perhaps you don't fully understand the issues.

Re: Psychedelic drugs take on depression

#73

Post by swatcoder »

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #47
mathgladiator wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Been there, and I just did a booster. I'm now very happy as I plug along on my project without any negative judgement: https://www.adama-platform.com/2022/07/02/the-path-of-the-mo... I'm doing silly things for silly reasons, and I've never been this happy and at peace. It let me heal from the moral injury of working in big tech for a decade.

I am in no way diagnosing, but I have Bipolar Disorder, so did my mother and my brother. I say things like this which you wrote when I am hypomanic/manic: "As I reflect on this, I’ve concluded that I exist with the divine purpose of bringing beauty into the world. Beauty and elegance require tremendous suffering because having taste is expensive." It is kind of typical of the condition. I know nothing I saw will conv…

> It is kind of typical of the condition.

It can be, but it’s not exclusive to it.

It’s good that you’ve identified cues that helps you check in on your own well-being, and it’s good that you have concern for others and want to help them, but please be mindful not to inadvertently shit on someone else’s sundae in the process.

Seeing your life in spiritual terms and identifying yourself with a purpose is a common and healing experience, especially during transformative points in one’s life — like coming out of a depression, finding love, overcoming adversity, or even reading a book or exploring a new faith that resonates strongly.

For some people, those feelings can get out of control and it’s good for people who face that pattern to be aware of what may be warning signs for them, but the same behavior is often a normal and healthy experience for others. Without other signs of concern, it might be kinder let others be than to suggest they question their own recovery.

Re: Psychedelic drugs take on depression

#75

Post by FollowingTheDao »

swatcoder wrote: post #73
FollowingTheDao wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am in no way diagnosing, but I have Bipolar Disorder, so did my mother and my brother. I say things like this which you wrote when I am hypomanic/manic: "As I reflect on this, I’ve concluded that I exist with the divine purpose of bringing beauty into the world. Beauty and elegance require tremendous suffering because having taste is expensive." It is kind of typical of the condition. I know nothing I saw will conv…

> It is kind of typical of the condition. It can be, but it’s not exclusive to it. It’s good that you’ve identified cues that helps you check in on your own well-being, and it’s good that you have concern for others and want to help them, but please be mindful not to inadvertently shit on someone else’s sundae in the process. Seeing your life in spiritual terms and identifying yourself with a purpose is a common and…

most of what you said is fair, but as a Taoist, I do not see a semi euphoric state as being a normal condition, or even a condition that can be a sustained for a long period of time. There’s a saying, that a strong wind does not blow all day.

With these rushes of neurotransmitters, the receptor density on our neurons changes to adapt to them. This is a truth that we all need to understand. This is how the strong wind ends.

I’m afraid that people will be obsessed with trying to sustain this type of bliss when a more healthy approach would be to look for a neutral state. Absent of the constant highs and lows.

Re: Psychedelic drugs take on depression

#76

Post by 1MachineElf »

mathgladiator wrote: post #12
ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #3

Ketamine is a magical drug, I've told this story a hundred times on HN but it cured my depression overnight. I was given a large hit of it by a doctor after a horrible accident, I went into a K-hole and had a spiritual experience, but even more profound was the effect it had for 4 to 6 months after. It was like a veil had been lifted from my mind, the simplest pleasures of life made me happy, like smelling fresh coff…

Been there, and I just did a booster. I'm now very happy as I plug along on my project without any negative judgement: https://www.adama-platform.com/2022/07/02/the-path-of-the-mo... I'm doing silly things for silly reasons, and I've never been this happy and at peace. It let me heal from the moral injury of working in big tech for a decade.

Congratulations on healing from moral injury and good luck with your interesting project!

Re: Psychedelic drugs take on depression

#77

Post by swatcoder »

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #75
swatcoder wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is kind of typical of the condition. It can be, but it’s not exclusive to it. It’s good that you’ve identified cues that helps you check in on your own well-being, and it’s good that you have concern for others and want to help them, but please be mindful not to inadvertently shit on someone else’s sundae in the process. Seeing your life in spiritual terms and identifying yourself with a purpose is a common and…

most of what you said is fair, but as a Taoist, I do not see a semi euphoric state as being a normal condition, or even a condition that can be a sustained for a long period of time. There’s a saying, that a strong wind does not blow all day. With these rushes of neurotransmitters, the receptor density on our neurons changes to adapt to them. This is a truth that we all need to understand. This is how the strong wind…

I admire your concern for people, but you might be getting a little bit ahead of the data when you start imagining others getting obsessed and develop your own fears for their sake.

But I’d also mention, as a fellow student of balance, that it can be found amidst great highs and lows and not just in the absence of them. Acrobats exhibit tremendous balance. :)

Re: Psychedelic drugs take on depression

#79

Post by kirse »

virgildotcodes wrote: post #54
kirse wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

psychedelics really help tear down the justifications we put up for the BS we tolerate in our daily lives Thing is you can do that with an extended weekend of fasting/meditation and solitude in the woods. Bring a notepad and pencil if you really want to lock in the new perspective. Bonus is that fasting is also widely known to be healthy. Plus how do you really know the causative agent of change was the drugs, what i…

>what if there was already the underlying emotional desire to do something and having the experience was more about creating the justification to act? That's definitely part of it, and I think kind of what OP was alluding to in that the experience allows you to dissolve many of the cognitive habits you've built up over your life, allowing you to experience an extremely honest perception of your own mind. I'm not sure…

experience an extremely honest perception of your own mind.

Is it though? Does walking into the fun-house mirror room really produce an accurate reflection of who you are?

An altered perspective accompanied by an intense emotional experience doesn't necessarily indicate any real truth was uncovered.

You can have some quite profound experiences on 3-5 day water/electrolyte fasts as well. When the body is stripped of the energy necessary to maintain psychological defense mechanisms and cognitive habits, they peel away quite well there too. Highly recommended for the time-sensitive and impatient spiritual journeyman.

Re: Psychedelic drugs take on depression

#80

Post by scubakid »

ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #34
mathgladiator wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Been there, and I just did a booster. I'm now very happy as I plug along on my project without any negative judgement: https://www.adama-platform.com/2022/07/02/the-path-of-the-mo... I'm doing silly things for silly reasons, and I've never been this happy and at peace. It let me heal from the moral injury of working in big tech for a decade.

Very interesting. I've long sought the divine in the machine but haven't found a satisfactory avenue to pursue it so I went back to Catholicism instead. It provides answers to our suffering that hedonism ignores.

Growing up in a catholic household, what I mostly felt as a kid was cognitive dissonance and guilt... but to each their own.
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