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Patent Trolls Inbound: Our First Lawsuit

blog.comma.ai

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Re: Patent Trolls Inbound: Our First Lawsuit

#71

Post by artdigital »

runnerup wrote: post #53
sib wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been Newegg's strategy forever... https://www.newegg.com/insider/newegg-vs-patent-trolls-when-...

Old Newegg. That lawyer has moved on along with the rest of the leadership after a change in ownership. Also George Hotz fought and cowed Sony’s legal team when he was a kid in a saga involving ‘marcan42 of Asahi Linux. These patent trolls must be very foolish to try to intimidate him. Edit: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Computer_Entertainment_...

Didn't he settle with Sony with the promise to never hack any other sony products in the future? (source wikipedia)

Re: Patent Trolls Inbound: Our First Lawsuit

#72

Post by caf »

kstrauser wrote: post #26
etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #18

To play devil's advocate, there is nothing about being a patent troll inherently illegal. Hotz feels the patent is invalid, but it might not be. Our system does not require you to ever build the object patented before extracting fees from it. This is in fact the way the US patent system works. One of the patents is here: https://portal.unifiedpatents.com/patents/patent/10454707 Method, Apparatus and System for Retrof…

The devil doesn't need an advocate. And at any rate, "illegal" is not the same as "immoral". Even if the troll's actions are within the law, in my opinion they're utterly immoral and scummy.

The devil doesn't need an advocate.

Is this because the devil is a qualified attorney himself?

Re: Patent Trolls Inbound: Our First Lawsuit

#74

Post by NotYourLawyer »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #58
linuxhansl wrote: post #45

In every western country - except the US and England - the loser pays for the cost of the trial (all parties' lawyer fees + the court). Just this reduces frivolous lawsuits. If you have a good case, sure, go ahead. If your case is weak, you run a real risk paying not only for your lawyers but the other side as well. (Note that there are disadvantages to loser-pays as well. Image you legitimately want to sue corporati…

In the US, if you lose a patent lawsuit, you will often have to pay legal fees and costs (within reasonable limits). It's the same as the rest of the western world for these specific suits.

… in “exceptional cases.” 35 USC 285

Re: Patent Trolls Inbound: Our First Lawsuit

#76

Post by kstrauser »

caf wrote: post #72
kstrauser wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The devil doesn't need an advocate. And at any rate, "illegal" is not the same as "immoral". Even if the troll's actions are within the law, in my opinion they're utterly immoral and scummy.

The devil doesn't need an advocate. Is this because the devil is a qualified attorney himself?

Lawyer joke: He's surround by 'em.

Re: Patent Trolls Inbound: Our First Lawsuit

#78

Post by sometimeshuman »

"comma isn’t run by rational actors in suits sitting on a committee. It’s run by me, George Hotz. I’m willing to lose $1M before I give him $10k."

This stance is admirable but comma.ai is partly owned by investors. Isn't he obliged to find the lowest cost solution to this ? Or is George Hotz planning to spend his personal money on the lawsuit ?

Re: Patent Trolls Inbound: Our First Lawsuit

#79

Post by runnerup »

artdigital wrote: post #71
runnerup wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Old Newegg. That lawyer has moved on along with the rest of the leadership after a change in ownership. Also George Hotz fought and cowed Sony’s legal team when he was a kid in a saga involving ‘marcan42 of Asahi Linux. These patent trolls must be very foolish to try to intimidate him. Edit: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Computer_Entertainment_...

Didn't he settle with Sony with the promise to never hack any other sony products in the future? (source wikipedia)

In my opinion, for someone his age that’s essentially a victory if it doesn’t involve any payments or criminal repercussions. In theory, marcan42 would have been subject to a very similar or same settlement but he went on to continue working on Sony stuff without repercussion:

“In 2016, he ported Linux to the PlayStation 4 and demonstrated that at the 33rd Chaos Communication Congress by running Steam inside Linux.”

Considering that Sony’s primary claims were:

Violating the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (17 U.S.C. § 1201)

Violating the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(2)(c))

Contributory copyright infringement (17 U.S.C. § 501)

Violating California Comprehensive Computer Data Access and Fraud Act (§ 502)

I’d say that the outcome failed to reflect Sony’s perspective on the situation and much more closely aligns with “George Hotz faced nearly no actual consequences”.

Re: Patent Trolls Inbound: Our First Lawsuit

#80

Post by googlryas »

keepquestioning wrote: post #63

I have a dumb question about patent trolls. How do they figure out whether stuff is truly infringing a patent in the first place? Surely some corporate espionage is required to figure this out?

I can't speak generally, but looking at the court filings for this suit, it is relating to techniques for retrofitting stuff onto vehicles, so I imagine merely the installation instructions for comma.ai would be enough to tell them what they need to know.

I don't really know though, my eyes glaze over when I read patents and think about patent law.

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