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The gathering crisis in the UK

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Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#71

Post by banannaise »

WaxProlix wrote: post #21
PaulHoule wrote: post #3

It's a bit like blaming the Democrats for the political crisis in the US but I have to ask "what the hell is wrong with Labor?" The Tories have dominated politics in the UK since the later 1970s except for the Blair administration, and Blair was an honorary Tory.

There's something wild going on there, too. Leaked documents have shown how their best chance at real Labour-style governance (Corbyn) was intentionally smeared from within as an antisemite, among other things, in order to torpedo his popularity. Instead, Labour has the hugely ineffectual Tory-esque Keir Starmer now. Feels very much like a managed opposition.

Sounds very similar to this, from the original author, in the comments:

The situation is not irretrievable in theory, at this point.

The problem is that in practice a solution requires the political elite to collectively admit the falsehood of the axioms they built their entire careers on.

If an individual political leader defects from the nationalist-neoliberal consensus, then they get treated exactly the way Jeremy Corbyn was. Corbyn was a soft-brexiter -- his distrust of the EU was based on it having emerged from the EEC, as a capitalist institution: what they hated him for was for being an unreconstructed hang-over from the 1970s when Labour was actually a left-wing party.

Neoliberal politicians can't admit that the crisis is rooted in neoliberal policies.

Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#72

Post by poulsbohemian »

mjevans wrote: post #10

Some of England's problems are unique to them, but I think the reason those who voted for Brexit did so is that they felt the current deal wasn't working for them. Already, way back then, they weren't on a path to a bright future where there was a house of their own to live in, a job that was a good fit for them and society, a future to believe in. I believe the same things that fueled Brexit persist as malaise today…

This might sound like cheap shots, but I say it with love for my friends in the Uk...

If you look at Britain historically...coal is dead. Wool is dead. The island itself is fairly small for much agriculture. There aren't a whole lot of natural resources. They had power and resources through their empire, but that is gone. Their one shot, so to speak, was like many developed nations - services, including financial. But Brexit was signaling, and companies saw that there was little incentive to stay and do business there vs. Frankfurt, Zurich, New York, etc.

So... yeah, a lot of us pre-Brexit saw this malaise not only for what it was, but what it was going to become. It isn't a pretty picture and the utter void of competent political leadership means this is probably a protracted decline.

Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#73

Post by dane-pgp »

seibelj wrote: post #7

Green energy (except nuclear) is inefficient, expensive, irregular, and the money for it goes straight to China and developing nations who mine the rare earth elements. Even Germany finally backed off from de-commissioning their last nuclear plants as the Greens realized it was illogical. Need to remove red tape, stop controlling prices, de-regulate business, establish free trade agreements, and do all manner of thin…

> Green energy (except nuclear) ... the rare earth elements.

These facts may interest you:

"the [French Environment and Energy Management Agency] ultimately concluded that the renewable energy sector actually barely uses such materials."[0]

"A large amount of uranium is in rare earth deposits, and may be extracted as a by-product."[1]

> Need to remove red tape, ... de-regulate business

Another quote for you, about the Fukushima disaster:

"There is a growing body of evidence that suggests the accident was the result of failures in regulation and nuclear plant design and that both were lagging behind international best practices and standards."[2]

[0] https://www.pv-magazine.com/2019/11/28/are-rare-earths-used-...

[1] https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-c...

[2] https://carnegieendowment.org/2012/03/06/why-fukushima-was-p...

Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#74

Post by UncleOxidant »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #61
mikeiz404 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From an energy security standpoint being net neutral or better is good but is the US insulated from fossil fuel prices? From a market perspective I would have thought a decrease in supply (say sanctions on Russian oil) would up the price of oil. This would effect domestic oil prices as well since either the domestic producers also participate globally or other sources of oil available domestically are also available…

> From an energy security standpoint being net neutral or better is good but is the US insulated from fossil fuel prices? The US as an economy is mostly not effected by fuel prices anymore. But the average US consumer is - that's probably the important part.

But the average US consumer is a big part of the economy - if they're effected, then how is the US economy not effected?

Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#75

Post by banannaise »

throxaway wrote: post #19

I think when discussing this, it should be recognised that there is ample evidence that Russia has worked last several years to undermine the stability of western democracies. Brexit vote and resulting chaos being one glaring result. I am suggesting that we are just starting to understand the magnitude in which Russia has been able to cause havoc in the west by taking advantage of our freedoms. Link: https://en.m.wik…

I'm not sure how accurately you can call it "interference" when major political players within the affected nations are actively courting it as a way to achieve their aims while maintaining plausible deniability and a consistent funding source.

Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#76

Post by radicaldreamer »

poulsbohemian wrote: post #72
mjevans wrote: post #10

Some of England's problems are unique to them, but I think the reason those who voted for Brexit did so is that they felt the current deal wasn't working for them. Already, way back then, they weren't on a path to a bright future where there was a house of their own to live in, a job that was a good fit for them and society, a future to believe in. I believe the same things that fueled Brexit persist as malaise today…

This might sound like cheap shots, but I say it with love for my friends in the Uk... If you look at Britain historically...coal is dead. Wool is dead. The island itself is fairly small for much agriculture. There aren't a whole lot of natural resources. They had power and resources through their empire, but that is gone. Their one shot, so to speak, was like many developed nations - services, including financial. Bu…

Their financial empire still remains strong, as a conduit or storage tank for illicit flows from corrupt countries worldwide (a kind of Switzerland with a large population and areas for investment).

Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#77

Post by banannaise »

Victerius wrote: post #22
actionfromafar wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What, how?! Currently, it looks further than ever.

I don't see a way to solve humanity's problems with hundreds of governments each pursuing its own agenda.

If they can mutually agree to pursue those agendas through self-determination rather than imperialism, then they can get quite far.

That's a bit of a tall order, though, to be fair.

Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#78

Post by reggieband »

I am reminded of the story of the fat cat that I recently read in a Brothers Grimm collection. In case it is not familiar to you:

A cat and a mouse decide to team up and store up some surplus food for hard times. They agree during abundant times to both put a little extra fat into a shared pot. They then store the pot in a safe place. The cat, however, is overcome by hunger even in the abundant times. Every few weeks the cat sneaks to the pot and takes just a little bit, maybe just a few licks at a time. Over the course of a couple of years of sneaking and small stealing the cat manages to completely deplete the pot. Then hard times hit, as both expected. The cat and the mouse both go to the pot together to divide their savings. But when they lift the lid they both gasp in surprise that the pot is empty. The mouse slowly realizes what must have happened. The cat is guilty but won't stand being accused and so it turns on the mouse and eats it.

My whole life I had heard of the rich upper-classes described as "fat cats" but I didn't really understand the message until I read the story. From at least 2008 we were supposed to be saving for the next crisis. Yet here we are at the next crisis and low and behold the pot is empty.

The reason we fall for this over and over again is that the short-term memory of civilization is shorter than the cycles these things happen over.

Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#79

Post by throwaway_4ever »

throxaway wrote: post #19

I think when discussing this, it should be recognised that there is ample evidence that Russia has worked last several years to undermine the stability of western democracies. Brexit vote and resulting chaos being one glaring result. I am suggesting that we are just starting to understand the magnitude in which Russia has been able to cause havoc in the west by taking advantage of our freedoms. Link: https://en.m.wik…

Look no further than Putin’s spokesman, Dmitri Peskov’s daughter, Elizaveta, being an assistant to far-right Aymeric Chauprade, a French Member of the European Parliament.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aymeric_Chauprade

Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#80

Post by TremendousJudge »

skrtskrt wrote: post #60
puchatek wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That cannot possibly be the only thing it delivered. The likes of Farage have been working on this thing for decades. They must be getting a lot more it of it

As much as I want socialized medicine in the US, I worry when look at Britain and see how a wave of regressive politicians can damage carefully built government institutions so quickly

>so quickly

it's been 43 years, as the author points out

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