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Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

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Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#71

Post by mensetmanusman »

Dan_- wrote: post #46
ars wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but it's not like the final product (Teflon) is safe to ingest either Sure it is. I don't think a less toxic material than Teflon even exists. It's toxicity is comparable to water. The LD50 of Teflon is > 11,280 mg/kg. Water by comparison is 90,000 mg/kg. They were not able to measure the exact toxicity because it's impossible to eat so much.

Bullshit. There is “toxic” and there is “causes cancer, even outside California, reduces fertility, and negatively affects fetal development.” Just because something doesn’t kill you immediately does not mean it isn’t harmful.

Sugar does those things.

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#72

Post by Teknoman117 »

ars wrote: post #14
Teknoman117 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's honestly one of the things I wish we could get a handle on. Company gets sued for using and hiding the danger of a compound they learned fairly quickly was toxic. Goes and invents another compound and switches to it without having to prove its safety. After it becoming public that they were intentionally hiding dangers for a half century, I feel we should take away their ability to be given the benefit of the…

> but it's not like the final product (Teflon) is safe to ingest either Sure it is. I don't think a less toxic material than Teflon even exists. It's toxicity is comparable to water. The LD50 of Teflon is > 11,280 mg/kg. Water by comparison is 90,000 mg/kg. They were not able to measure the exact toxicity because it's impossible to eat so much.

Teflon in isolation may be fine, but your average cookware still contains enough PFOA left over from the synthesis process to cause harm. The replacement to PFOA (GenX?) has also been found in modern Teflon cookware as well.

Also, Teflon out-gasses at temperatures well below your average stovetop flame. Toxic enough that you can't use Teflon cookware if you own birds. It'll kill them.

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#73

Post by ars »

powerhour wrote: post #42
pessimizer wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what's released from Teflon pans at high heat, but Teflon kills birds. I know this because I killed two birds by forgetting about a pan I was warming up. Wasn't enough to make the pan look any different; was enough to instantly kill the birds. https://www.teflon.com/en/consumers/teflon-coatings-cookware...

My family learned this after replacing a stove with one that had a non-stick interior a couple decades ago. That was a pretty major bummer.

I googled, and I could not find any ovens with Teflon in them.

On top of that you have to heat the Teflon over 500F / 260C, and ovens temperatures don't go so high (except in self cleaning but a non-stick oven would not have self cleaning).

I suspect something else happened to your birds - probably simple smoke from food residue, which kills birds much easier than overheated Teflon does.

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#74

Post by userbinator »

Teknoman117 wrote: post #72
ars wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but it's not like the final product (Teflon) is safe to ingest either Sure it is. I don't think a less toxic material than Teflon even exists. It's toxicity is comparable to water. The LD50 of Teflon is > 11,280 mg/kg. Water by comparison is 90,000 mg/kg. They were not able to measure the exact toxicity because it's impossible to eat so much.

Teflon in isolation may be fine, but your average cookware still contains enough PFOA left over from the synthesis process to cause harm. The replacement to PFOA (GenX?) has also been found in modern Teflon cookware as well. Also, Teflon out-gasses at temperatures well below your average stovetop flame. Toxic enough that you can't use Teflon cookware if you own birds. It'll kill them.

but your average cookware still contains enough PFOA left over from the synthesis process to cause harm.

Citation needed.

The fumes are quite toxic. Toxic enough that you can't use Teflon cookware if you own birds.

The dose makes the poison.

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#75

Post by ars »

Teknoman117 wrote: post #72
ars wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but it's not like the final product (Teflon) is safe to ingest either Sure it is. I don't think a less toxic material than Teflon even exists. It's toxicity is comparable to water. The LD50 of Teflon is > 11,280 mg/kg. Water by comparison is 90,000 mg/kg. They were not able to measure the exact toxicity because it's impossible to eat so much.

Teflon in isolation may be fine, but your average cookware still contains enough PFOA left over from the synthesis process to cause harm. The replacement to PFOA (GenX?) has also been found in modern Teflon cookware as well. Also, Teflon out-gasses at temperatures well below your average stovetop flame. Toxic enough that you can't use Teflon cookware if you own birds. It'll kill them.

> but your average cookware still contains enough PFOA left over from the synthesis process to cause harm

That isn't true.

"Studies show that this coating contains a negligible amount of PFAS capable of migrating to food." https://www.fda.gov/food/chemical-contaminants-food/question...

> Toxic enough that you can't use Teflon cookware if you own birds. It'll kill them.

This also isn't true. You can't heat your cookware above 500F / 260C, that's it. Which obviously no one does since everything would be burned black.

Oil is much more dangerous to birds than Teflon, since it will kill them at temperatures actually reached during cooking.

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#76

Post by bcbrown »

samwillis wrote: post #6

Slightly off topic, I’m keen to dispose of our Teflon frying pan. Does anyone have a good recommendation for an alternative, ideally one that doesn’t take too much “maintenance”? We also have a Teflon milk pan but that is never used at a high tempriture so I’m less concerned about that.

Demeyere brand skillets are fantastic. They're fairly nonstick - I can scramble eggs with only a little sticking, hamburgers or sausages will leave residue, but it's easily cleanable. They aren't super cheap, but they won't break the bank and they're a lot of value for the money.

An aluminum skillet from a restaurant supply store is cheap and low-maintenance. I use this one [0] for omelets and scrambled eggs, and it's probably my favorite pan. The thickness means that the heat is incredibly even, and there's enough mass that it won't cool down much when adding food to a preheated pan.

[0] https://www.foodservicedirect.com/alegacy-eagleware-the-poin...

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#77

Post by autoexec »

ackfoobar wrote: post #43
droopyEyelids wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could get a new pan with 'ceramic' coating. It's just like teflon in basically every way.

A friend of mine bought a "ceramic" coated pan which turns out to be PFAS. For an overview of "real" ceramic pans: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G21f_ny_lxs

A lot of cookware sold online (especially places like amazon) are outright lying about what they are made with. "PFAS free" is more or less a meaningless marketing term at this point. The FDA is doing nothing to stop people from making false claims about these types of products.

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#79

Post by autoexec »

ars wrote: post #9
samwillis wrote: post #6

Slightly off topic, I’m keen to dispose of our Teflon frying pan. Does anyone have a good recommendation for an alternative, ideally one that doesn’t take too much “maintenance”? We also have a Teflon milk pan but that is never used at a high tempriture so I’m less concerned about that.

High temperatures do not bother Teflon, there's no reason to dispose of it because of that. According to the EPA Teflon frying pans do not leech any PFOA into food, that's not where people are exposed. I've noticed that for some reason a ton of people think they get exposure to PFOA from cookware, and that's simply not true. PFOA exposure mainly comes from waterproofing coatings, slippery coatings (like the bottom of…

> High temperatures do not bother Teflon,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymer_fume_fever

Seems totally healthy to me!

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#80

Post by ok_dad »

itsangaris wrote: post #17
ok_dad wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's just like teflon in basically every way. Hopefully not in the bad ways? Is the "ceramic coating" proven to not be harmful?

Ceramic itself is safe. Ultimately for a coating, the safety depends on what's underneath if/when it wears through.

Is it really ceramic or something they call "ceramic" that has other additives like a metamaterial?
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