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Michael Jordan: “Republicans Buy Sneakers Too”

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Re: Michael Jordan: “Republicans Buy Sneakers Too”

#71

Post by sometimeshuman »

blagie wrote: post #31

If I were running a business ethically, I'd want to mute my criticism of politics, including fairly extreme ones. Partisanship is tearing the world apart. I want people with different viewpoints to interact. That's the only way to address them. If we don't work together and we don't shop together, we'll grow more polarized as a result. Democracy isn't a battle, and you win by convincing people, and not by beating the…

"you win by convincing people, and not by beating them down or punishing them. That means interacting with them."

This is painful and pointless unless it is a good faith discussion. But often people just use you as a sounding board to repeat rumors, gossip, and lies about whatever out-group currently in their crosshairs. Also what possible interaction can you have with someone that can compete with the slow drip of fear and hate they consumed nightly for the last decade from cable news for example.

Re: Michael Jordan: “Republicans Buy Sneakers Too”

#72

Post by mikkergp »

googlryas wrote: post #62

There's a meme, where someone goes on a rant in the wrong location and someone responds "Sir, this is a Wendy's". Maybe we need one for "Sir, this company sells shoes". It isn't clear to me why a person trying to sell shoes needs to take a stand about one politician or another. Except for the fact that there is only one thing partisans hate more than their enemies - the people who aren't part of the partisan fray.

Shoe production would be pretty dependent on trade policy right? Which different politicians support in different ways.

Re: Michael Jordan: “Republicans Buy Sneakers Too”

#73

Post by V__ »

siglesias wrote: post #61
V__ wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you that partisanship and polarization are making it worse. However, you imply that "both sides" are just as extreme, but that isn't often the case. Let's exaggerate it to: "Russians buy sneakers too" or "Taliban are religious too" or something alike. A business saying "We want the Russian military and the Ukrainian civilians to interact, share different viewpoints and prevent partisanship" would sound r…

>> Right now there is only one really extreme "side" in the U.S. I urge you to consider that this attitude is the very problem under discussion.

If we look back at my example. Would you say the same thing to the Ukrainian making that point? If not, we agree that there is a line at which politics end and extremism begins, which has nothing to do with attitude.

Personally, I find it obvious that Republicans have crossed that line. Maybe they will come back, maybe not.

This also doesn't mean, one shouldn't try to discuss or interact with them, but be wary of what the reality is.

Re: Michael Jordan: “Republicans Buy Sneakers Too”

#74

Post by V__ »

geraldwhen wrote: post #60
V__ wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you that partisanship and polarization are making it worse. However, you imply that "both sides" are just as extreme, but that isn't often the case. Let's exaggerate it to: "Russians buy sneakers too" or "Taliban are religious too" or something alike. A business saying "We want the Russian military and the Ukrainian civilians to interact, share different viewpoints and prevent partisanship" would sound r…

Whether you understand it or not you have taken an extreme political position. “Their politics are politics. Our politics are ethics/human rights.” It’s all politics and refusing to see that is extremely divisive.

If we look back at my example. Would you say the same thing to the Ukrainian making that point? If not, we agree that there is a line at which politics end and extremism begins, that is not an extreme political position.

This also doesn't mean, one shouldn't try to discuss or interact with them, but be wary of what the reality is.

Re: Michael Jordan: “Republicans Buy Sneakers Too”

#75

Post by jimmygrapes »

chrisan wrote: post #45
blagie wrote: post #31

If I were running a business ethically, I'd want to mute my criticism of politics, including fairly extreme ones. Partisanship is tearing the world apart. I want people with different viewpoints to interact. That's the only way to address them. If we don't work together and we don't shop together, we'll grow more polarized as a result. Democracy isn't a battle, and you win by convincing people, and not by beating the…

The problem I find is convincing Republicans to even talk and think about the consequences of something. Abortion for example, they just hardline "no". It's very exhausting.

What other examples can you think of? And how many Republicans have you tried discussing the consequences of abortion with? Recent polling[1] doesn't seem to agree with your characterization, so maybe you have just had bad luck with your delivery or respondents?

1: https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/HHP...

Re: Michael Jordan: “Republicans Buy Sneakers Too”

#76

Post by mikkergp »

illuminerdy wrote: post #48

Businesses are supposed to be separate entities from the individuals who own them. I don't understand why people think businesses need to be political. If that's the case then just start your own Political Action Committee.

I mean, at least at the highest level, businesses have to be political in their areas right? Internet companies should be involved in SOPA, car companies should be involved in emissions regulation, food companies should be involved in FDA regulation.

Re: Michael Jordan: “Republicans Buy Sneakers Too”

#77

Post by bluefirebrand »

chrisan wrote: post #45
blagie wrote: post #31

If I were running a business ethically, I'd want to mute my criticism of politics, including fairly extreme ones. Partisanship is tearing the world apart. I want people with different viewpoints to interact. That's the only way to address them. If we don't work together and we don't shop together, we'll grow more polarized as a result. Democracy isn't a battle, and you win by convincing people, and not by beating the…

The problem I find is convincing Republicans to even talk and think about the consequences of something. Abortion for example, they just hardline "no". It's very exhausting.

I guarantee there are a large number of people who vote Republican but who are willing to discuss abortion and maybe even are pro choice. There just might be other issues they want more that they think the Republican party will deliver on.

Those people probably don't go around identifying as Republicans publically.

In my experience, the vast majority of people don't let who they vote for define their identity.

Re: Michael Jordan: “Republicans Buy Sneakers Too”

#78

Post by deepdriver »

googlryas wrote: post #62

There's a meme, where someone goes on a rant in the wrong location and someone responds "Sir, this is a Wendy's". Maybe we need one for "Sir, this company sells shoes". It isn't clear to me why a person trying to sell shoes needs to take a stand about one politician or another. Except for the fact that there is only one thing partisans hate more than their enemies - the people who aren't part of the partisan fray.

"Burgers?"

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/are-you-sure-this-will-help-u...

The meme creator is unfortunately quite racist. I see it is a problem if extremists are the only ones comfortable making certain obvious true statements. It attracts the support of people who might otherwise remain moderate.

Re: Michael Jordan: “Republicans Buy Sneakers Too”

#79

Post by andrew_ »

> Years later, for many, Jordan’s brand is intrinsically tied to this choice.

I really dislike this kind of journalism. How many is "many"? Is it just the author and their circle? Is it just people who insist that everything is political? I think this is a lazy assertion, which is a shame because I enjoyed the content that followed it. Surely there's a better introduction available.

Re: Michael Jordan: “Republicans Buy Sneakers Too”

#80

Post by bluefirebrand »

feet wrote: post #54
mikkergp wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it gets the gnarliest in conversations about discrimination. We have notions of "protected classes" and "non-protected classes", and the recent discussions about caste discrimination are pretty exemplary. And sometimes you can't help but take a side. I don't know that I always think inaction is taking a side, but once you become aware of people taking actions in your company, like a higher caste firing a lowe…

Inaction is absolutely complicity. By doing and saying nothing you're stating the issue doesn't matter enough to you to not let it continue.

That's a huge reach. People aren't entitled to have everyone else take personal risks on their behalf. That is why it is worthy of respect when people do stick their necks out for others.

And yes, standing up against injustice is very often a personal risk.

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