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Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

bloomberg.com

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Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#71

Post by BoorishBears »

nimbius wrote: post #29
it_citizen wrote: post #20

While I like the technology aspect, I am secretly rooting for expensive cars to become uncool. Small boring self-driving cars, possibly collectively owned instead of big expensive individually owned cars often used as a proof of social status.

call me a skeptic, I've worked in the auto industry as a heavy engine master tech for over 20 years, but the same luxury manufacturers who can't make a v8 that lasts longer than 60k miles without a recall or major defect are not qualified to skip class and start making Ev's. Mercedes rolled out the 250 largely because biturbo has been a loss leading qc dumpster fire for the last decade. Audi can barely handle infotai…

> BMW has turned their technology package into a monthly milk truck that fleeces people for basics you get out the door from Toyota

Someone who's so deeply embedded the the industry should know Toyota Connect is the same story, installing hardware in all models but only enabling it for subscribers.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#72

Post by BoorishBears »

devnulll wrote: post #4

> Putting a motor on each wheel — or at least one on each axle — could translate into hair-raising EV driving performance. I don't understand this. My Plaid Tesla has a motor on each of the rear axles, and it's direct coupled to the wheel. The already are doing torque vectoring. Like all things in engineering, the trade-off's are critical. This article doesn't go at all into the pros/cons of the approach Tesla (and o…

> if Tesla isn't doing it already I suspect it's either not economically feasible, difficult to manufacture, or otherwise has drawbacks they've judged signifigant.

Which of those applied to giving the Plaid suitable rotors for its size and power?

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#73

Post by domtom1 »

Merc's and ferrari's big edge is r&d. F1 provides a lot of research for the batteries for the big companies who want to produce high hp ev's, Ferrari and Merc. Merc holds the world record of 1000km driven on a single charge. Its a concept car but still. They mention specifically that they used merc f1 engineers with also the help of the r&d of the f1 team. In the long run tesla will just be another car company with the big guys back on top because of this r&d from motorsport. Not just merc either eventually NASCAR will use hybrid v8s and companies like toyota, chevy, ford etc. will get all of this research and put it into real cars. This is speculation but its been happening with combustion engines for years. A lot of the reason for good MPG cars is motorsport. Here's the link for the WR EV Merc: https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterlyon/2022/04/13/world-reco...

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#74

Post by throwawaylinux »

h0l0cube wrote: post #53
throwawaylinux wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have a "climate pledge", nor do I need to move to a smaller or less powerful car or demand that anybody else change their lifestyle. What I will do is keep an eye on what the ultra-rich "experts" who seem to be most concerned about climate change do. When they give up their mansions and yachts and islands and private jets, eat bugs and teleconference to Bilderberg, that's when I might reconsider my lifestyle.…

> ultra-rich "experts" I don’t think climatologists are in the pay grade to afford super yachts

I'm talking about experts on how we should live and structure society as a whole. Climate science is one tiny part of that calculus.

And no climate scientist has told me I should lock myself in my house and eat cockroaches while they gallivant in their private jets from mansion to mansion and gorge themselves on quail tongues and sturgeon eggs.

EDIT: I didn't mean to say climate change is not happening or having negative impacts demonstrated by science, clearly the science says it is. I mean it's a non-issue in terms of people changing their lifestyles. With such renown and respected experts as Gore, Obama, Trudeau, Gates, and DiCaprio as my guiding stars on this matter, it's clear that the experts are firmly on my side, and anybody saying otherwise is a dangerous extremist denier.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#75

Post by clouddrover »

Smoosh wrote: post #39
clouddrover wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a general rule, if Tesla isn't doing it already I suspect it's either not economically feasible, difficult to manufacture, or otherwise has drawbacks they've judged signifigant. That's not a very good rule. There a lots of things Tesla doesn't do. - Tesla doesn't do battery swaps, but NIO does. NIO's done it 10 million times: https://www.nio.com/blog/nio-users-china-have-completed-10-m... - Tesla doesn't do 350…

> And so on I would really like V2H or V2G but no sign of it from Tesla so far.

Or even just V2L. Honda has it with the Honda e, Ford has it with the F-150 Lightning, and Hyundai has it with their E-GMP platform (currently Kia EV6, Genesis GV60, and Hyundai Ioniq 5).

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#76

Post by clouddrover »

googlryas wrote: post #54
clouddrover wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And? How many people do you think buy high performance cars? The answer is: not many.

Someone said > the Plaid is still the fastest car you can buy without dropping a half million And you said: > Nope: https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/19/23312956/lucid-air-sapphi ... Except you can't actually buy the car you linked to. That's a pretty big miss in a conversation about cars you can buy. In fact, I would say one of the two defining features of "cars you can buy" is the fact that you can buy them.

Of course you can. Reservations for the Sapphire open on Tuesday. Deliveries start next year.

Don't feel too bad that Tesla doesn't lead here. Tesla doesn't lead in real world range tests either:

https://insideevs.com/reviews/443791/ev-range-test-results/

Tesla makes good ads though. I like the bit with the parrot:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfMtONBK8dY

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#77

Post by throwawaylinux »

syzar wrote: post #69
throwawaylinux wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think among the ultra rich are very, very few climate experts They are far better informed and advised by experts in climate than you or I though. Also one can not just be an expert in climate science. A climate scientist could tell you the effect of increasing CO2 concentration in the atmosphere on the climate. They can not tell you the social and economic cost of that, or the best and most efficient technologie…

I don’t care whether or not you are doing your part for the environment or any other cause. My response above was not intended to try to convince you to take some action. My purpose was to point out flawed reasoning. Your second to last sentence is flawed. You can’t logically assume it’s all selfish lies. A hypocrite can be correct in what they saw but wrong in what they do. The correctness of a belief has nothing to…

The logic in my second to last sentence wasn't in my first comment.

In any case, I absolutely can assume it is lies. The whole premise is that climate change is a problem, it is the largest / existential problem for humanity, it must be addressed by changing our behavior, and that you should change even if others do not because you should set an example and that will induce more to follow.

I'm not saying it's all lies, but there has to be at least one lie that breaks the chain. They know better than anybody that their hypocritical actions and example are among the biggest causes of resentment among people. If they believed there was an existential threat to humanity, they would change their ways (or at least do something meaningful about climate change rather than start more wars, a la Obama).

So they're lying about something.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#78

Post by impossiblefork »

bombcar wrote: post #7
devnulll wrote: post #4

> Putting a motor on each wheel — or at least one on each axle — could translate into hair-raising EV driving performance. I don't understand this. My Plaid Tesla has a motor on each of the rear axles, and it's direct coupled to the wheel. The already are doing torque vectoring. Like all things in engineering, the trade-off's are critical. This article doesn't go at all into the pros/cons of the approach Tesla (and o…

The idea of a motor on each wheel independent has obviously been considered, but what is often ignored is the sprung vs unsprung weight. You could develop a pretty amazing off-road vehicle with independent electric motors in each wheel, but it would be a relatively bumpy ride.

The unsprung weight won't be changed.

There is one motor connected to each of the wheels, but there is a shaft between the wheel and the motor and a CV joint on this shaft, allowing the wheel to move relative to the motor, and the wheel is sprung.

There are cars with in-wheel hub motors. For example, MW Motors make on of their Luka models with in-wheel hub motors. Those must keep their motors light, and have the advantage that you get more space in the car at the expense of a tiny bit more bumpiness.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#79

Post by awestroke »

gridder wrote: post #17
clouddrover wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a general rule, if Tesla isn't doing it already I suspect it's either not economically feasible, difficult to manufacture, or otherwise has drawbacks they've judged signifigant. That's not a very good rule. There a lots of things Tesla doesn't do. - Tesla doesn't do battery swaps, but NIO does. NIO's done it 10 million times: https://www.nio.com/blog/nio-users-china-have-completed-10-m... - Tesla doesn't do 350…

- Tesla doesn’t offer LiDAR sensors, even if it’s clearly the best technology to use for the autopilot.

Because it is prohibitively expensive, and you get more data with multiple cameras than with one single lidar

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#80

Post by gzer0 »

gridder wrote: post #17
clouddrover wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a general rule, if Tesla isn't doing it already I suspect it's either not economically feasible, difficult to manufacture, or otherwise has drawbacks they've judged signifigant. That's not a very good rule. There a lots of things Tesla doesn't do. - Tesla doesn't do battery swaps, but NIO does. NIO's done it 10 million times: https://www.nio.com/blog/nio-users-china-have-completed-10-m... - Tesla doesn't do 350…

- Tesla doesn’t offer LiDAR sensors, even if it’s clearly the best technology to use for the autopilot.

Not even close. Psuedo-LiDAR approach is the way to go and everyone knows it. Waymo and others using LiDAR placed the wrong bet and now have nothing to show for it.
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