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Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

economist.com

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Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#71

Post by ip26 »

throwaway22032 wrote: post #27

Our economic system is set up such that you either hit a bar at which you accumulate capital forever unless you make a mistake, or you're loss-making forever. Once you hit that bar, your job becomes buying up housing like it's a Monopoly board. As an individual you can either choose to win or lose this game. We're not going to change it, at least not within our lifetimes.

Agreed; I figure the necessary missing piece is government dampening this effect. Some way or another, to balance it out you need to “leak” capital faster & faster as you accumulate it. The size of the leak would be tuned to allow you to continue to grow your wealth if you are still rapidly creating new wealth, but if you just sit on a kings ransom in safe investments, it would leak away & attenuate.

Trouble being, this most likely takes the form of steeply rising taxes, which are ever-unpopular, and needs careful design. I also suspect just about everybody aspires to “make it” and then stop striving; this is somewhat antithetical to that (although the leak would be tiny at regular-people levels of wealth)

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#72

Post by Retric »

choko wrote: post #64
pochekailov wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We probably need some service (an app or a site) that gives clear instructions on how, where and when to register. Yes, it is harder for renters, but it is designed to be harder. This is to prevent renters from having political power and making homeowner's houses more expensive. One more reason to fight, from my point of view.

We have all that and more. There are even groups that seek people out to teach them to vote. When you file a change of address with the post office, they send you a packet with all kinds of moving resources including how to re-register. In addition, a really quick Google search gives you all you need to know to register and vote. I don't understand why some people pretend the process is difficult. If people still are…

It is unreasonably difficult. There is no reason you should need to jump through any extra hoops beyond a change of address.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#73

Post by francisofascii »

danielrpa wrote: post #16
pochekailov wrote: post #14

Nothing will change while the homeowners have more political power than the renters. Even in the cities where the renter population is bigger than the homeowners, such as in Seattle, half of the votes come from people of > 65 years old (all of whom are homeowners, likely more than one home). Young people simply won't vote at all. There is very little incentives for the young people to vote. Even if you cancel all the…

If you are free and able to vote but won't do it, it's hard for me to feel too much pity for your situation. I started voting when I was 16 (my birth country allows that) and voted on every single election until I immigrated to the US - and then voted on every US election since becoming a citizen.

Well, you can't vote where you don't live. The large problem is the lack of appropriate land taxes in high cost municipalities. And you can't vote to change that until you live there, and once you live there, you are much less incentivized to vote against your self interests.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#74

Post by dwater »

choko wrote: post #64
pochekailov wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We probably need some service (an app or a site) that gives clear instructions on how, where and when to register. Yes, it is harder for renters, but it is designed to be harder. This is to prevent renters from having political power and making homeowner's houses more expensive. One more reason to fight, from my point of view.

We have all that and more. There are even groups that seek people out to teach them to vote. When you file a change of address with the post office, they send you a packet with all kinds of moving resources including how to re-register. In addition, a really quick Google search gives you all you need to know to register and vote. I don't understand why some people pretend the process is difficult. If people still are…

55% of Americans have hourly jobs, most of which do not control their hours. There are many polling places, particularly in underserved communities, where it can take multiple hours to get to vote. Elections are nearly always held on workdays. So if you are a single parent working an hourly wage job from 8am to 6pm and the polls close at 7pm, would you vote? The voting process is difficult in America for some people and easy for others.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#75

Post by _aavaa_ »

refurb wrote: post #25
pochekailov wrote: post #14

Nothing will change while the homeowners have more political power than the renters. Even in the cities where the renter population is bigger than the homeowners, such as in Seattle, half of the votes come from people of > 65 years old (all of whom are homeowners, likely more than one home). Young people simply won't vote at all. There is very little incentives for the young people to vote. Even if you cancel all the…

I think young generation needs to engage in the politics with the uncompromised goal to crush the housing price At least where I live, the “bank of mom and dad” either use their home equity to help their kids buy OR the kids are banking on getting the family home when they die. We’re in too deep now. We basically painted ourselves into a corner where the economic engine is so intertwined with rising home prices that…

> We’re in too deep now.

We're never going to be less "too deep". Kicking the can down the road condemns future generations to dealing with a worse problem.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#76

Post by nradov »

strikelaserclaw wrote: post #37
infl8ed wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although I don't disagree with you, I will just mention that housing affordability is also a problem in Australia where voting is mandatory

how do you think politicians make money? They usually own assets.

In the US some politicians make money by using their knowledge of upcoming legislation to trade stocks.

https://nypost.com/2022/07/23/nancy-and-paul-pelosi-are-trad...

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#77

Post by alistairSH »

lambertsimnel wrote: post #55
danielrpa wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are free and able to vote but won't do it, it's hard for me to feel too much pity for your situation. I started voting when I was 16 (my birth country allows that) and voted on every single election until I immigrated to the US - and then voted on every US election since becoming a citizen.

Some people find it difficult to vote, for reasons I suspect disproportionately affect renters. Where people must be registered with their home address in order to vote, renters are at more risk of being unregistered at election time, because they move home more frequently. People experiencing economic hardship (who are more likely to be renters) are less likely to make time for voting (especially if polling stations…

Not sure why you're being downvoted. Whether it's intentional or not, voting in the US is not always easy for several reasons...

1 - No national election day holiday, so wage-earners often have to forgo income to vote.

2 - Long lines, too few voting stations, exacerbate point 1

3 - Inconsistent voting laws as you cross municipal boundaries (mostly state to state).

3b - particularly WRT mail-in/absentee ballots.

4 - constant undermining of the voting system as a whole by the GOP. This has really ramped up in the last ~8 years, but it's been there much longer.

The first 3 are more likely to impact poorer citizens, who are also more likely to rent their homes.

We'd do well as a country to allow nationwide mail-in voting.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#78

Post by nradov »

francisofascii wrote: post #73
danielrpa wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are free and able to vote but won't do it, it's hard for me to feel too much pity for your situation. I started voting when I was 16 (my birth country allows that) and voted on every single election until I immigrated to the US - and then voted on every US election since becoming a citizen.

Well, you can't vote where you don't live. The large problem is the lack of appropriate land taxes in high cost municipalities. And you can't vote to change that until you live there, and once you live there, you are much less incentivized to vote against your self interests.

Most of the laws regarding property taxes are set at the state level, not the municipal level. In California, a voter in Modesto can influence tax rates in San Francisco. Local votes only control minor things like special additional school district assessments.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#79

Post by jimbob45 »

alistairSH wrote: post #77
lambertsimnel wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people find it difficult to vote, for reasons I suspect disproportionately affect renters. Where people must be registered with their home address in order to vote, renters are at more risk of being unregistered at election time, because they move home more frequently. People experiencing economic hardship (who are more likely to be renters) are less likely to make time for voting (especially if polling stations…

Not sure why you're being downvoted. Whether it's intentional or not, voting in the US is not always easy for several reasons... 1 - No national election day holiday, so wage-earners often have to forgo income to vote. 2 - Long lines, too few voting stations, exacerbate point 1 3 - Inconsistent voting laws as you cross municipal boundaries (mostly state to state). 3b - particularly WRT mail-in/absentee ballots. 4 - c…

1 - No national election day holiday, so wage-earners often have to forgo income to vote.

PSA: You can register as a poll worker and work election day to guarantee you have time to vote. There's a high chance that your work will give you the time off to go work as a poll worker without it eating into your PTO (and you get paid to boot!).

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#80

Post by bombcar »

zhdc1 wrote: post #17
psi75 wrote: post #7

Housing is (along with healthcare in the US) a big part of why most people in the so-called "rich world" are in fact dismally poor, only one missed paycheck or turn of bad luck away from life becoming unlivable. For most of us poors, money is a tool we need to survive. For the people who have the bulk of it, it's a weapon. And we're the targets. They love blowing us up; it's what they do. They care more about making…

> Housing is (along with healthcare in the US) a big part of why most people in the so-called "rich world" are in fact dismally poor, only one missed paycheck or turn of bad luck away from life becoming unlivable. Not really. Let's set up a quick boundary condition. Since you mentioned most people, you're talking about the lower-middle and middle classes. Let's keep the discussion on them. The working poor have it ba…

People will naturally spend beyond their capabilities, and the entire market is built around this (loans for everything is standard now).

The ONLY way to prevent this is to either stop offering loans or force savings in some way (taxes, etc). But apparently both those options are off the books.

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