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BRL-CAD

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Re: BRL-CAD

#71
post #64
post #51

> The BRL-CAD source code repository is the oldest known public version-controlled codebase in the world that's still under active development, dating back to 1983-12-16 00:10:31 UTC. Wow.

Another interesting fact: The BRL of BRL-CAD is the Ballistic Research Laboratory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_Research_Laboratory which developed, along with the Penn, the first general-purpose digital computer ENIAC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENIAC

Another fun fact, BRL-CAD was started by Mike Muuss, author of the 'ping' networking tool. Brilliant computer scientist. Also, while it's evolved, the codebase predates nearly everything .. ansi c, c++, tcp/ip, opengl, version control, .. actively developed and funded since 1979.

Re: BRL-CAD

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. Sometimes someone brilliant does something hard for the good of humanity though. I'm think specifically of that guy who wrote DXVK back in the mid 2010s. He basically made gaming on Linux possible.

He is certainly brilliant (I remember how quickly it went from showing a single triangle to actually having working games), but was quickly hired by Valve to work on it full-time.

Yeah, it was nuts. Us Linux gamers were all upset at CDProjekt Red for the bait and switch on the Linux support for Witcher 3, and then, blam DVXK suddenly made that irrelevant. And then so much more!

Re: BRL-CAD

#73
post #71
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another interesting fact: The BRL of BRL-CAD is the Ballistic Research Laboratory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_Research_Laboratory which developed, along with the Penn, the first general-purpose digital computer ENIAC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENIAC

Another fun fact, BRL-CAD was started by Mike Muuss, author of the 'ping' networking tool. Brilliant computer scientist. Also, while it's evolved, the codebase predates nearly everything .. ansi c, c++, tcp/ip, opengl, version control, .. actively developed and funded since 1979.

> version control

/me waves constructively, solidly at `brlcad

Your list looks good until “version control”, for which at least sccs[0] began representing in 1972.

I’m not used to catching `brlcad out at… anything, usually. Thought he might enjoy this “technically correct” (the best kind of correct) note.

Not that the list isn’t impressive enough, and BRL-CAD impressive in its own right. And to think it started as a dare.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Source_Code_Control_System

Re: BRL-CAD

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blender provides much of the value of its competitors. A purely CAD tool does not. You have to solve the other problems primarily, while also having CAD. Otherwise, it's like having a text editor when no programming languages exist. What is your business going to do with that?

I think you’re fighting a straw man? There needs to be an open-source integrated CAD/CAM environment, like Fusion 360 is. That's what the OP in this subthread is asking for.

[deleted]

Re: BRL-CAD

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blender provides much of the value of its competitors. A purely CAD tool does not. You have to solve the other problems primarily, while also having CAD. Otherwise, it's like having a text editor when no programming languages exist. What is your business going to do with that?

I think you’re fighting a straw man? There needs to be an open-source integrated CAD/CAM environment, like Fusion 360 is. That's what the OP in this subthread is asking for.

That wish is already granted

https://wiki.freecadweb.org/Path_Workbench

My thesis is that the bigger challenge is "economic", not technical.

Re: BRL-CAD

#76

I once worked as a developer for Pro/Engineer, and sometime after that, I was on the user side using BRL-CAD. I can't speak to the quality of the product these days, but at the time, BRL-CAD was achingly slow and riddled with bugs. Using it for my day-to-day work made me want to quit my job, and I left as soon as I had something more promising lined up. I am sorry to sound like I'm unfairly judging BRL-CAD. Perhaps w…

Isn't Pro/E a b-rep cad? BRL-CAD is one of the few "full-fledged" CAD systems that I know of which is explicitly CSG, while most (all?) commercial CAD programs are B-REP in nature. CSG and B-REP are two worlds apart. I'm not sure why in the comments we're suggesting alternatives in the two categories interchangeably. They're not [*]. An alternative to BRL-CAD would be OpenSCAD or libfive studio + other tools (since B…

Just a point of clarity, BRL-CAD now also supports BREP and is technically a hybrid modeling system.

CSG and hierarchical relationships still underpin, but a lot of effort was invested in BREP support over many years. There was already extensive support for polygonal BREP, but NURBS BREP was added to support seamless conversion of commercial CAD. BREP NURBS can be imported, ray traced, and facetized. BRL-CAD still needs direct surface editing, but you can mix implicit geometry with NURBS (e.g., subtract a hole) without issue. CSG entities can also be converted to BREP and work is ongoing to improve Boolean evaluation of BREP-on-BREP entities.

As for performance, implicit geometry with Booleans (i.e., "CSG") is typically an order of magnitude faster to evaluate (and an order of magnitude less memory than BREP/NURBS which is in turn an order of magnitude less memory than BREP/Poly). BREP/NURBS easily offer the most editing flexibility. CSG offers the most compression and programmability. BREP/Poly offers the most interop at the expense of representation fidelity, memory, and (sometimes) validity. All three can be "fast enough", but evaluation performance is still an important consideration on real/big models, e.g., fully detailed vehicles.

Note that generating an intermediate representation off CSG is not intrinsically necessary. When you have really fast+good solid ray tracing and analytic routines (and measuring tools) built around it, you don't need an intermediate rep. You just directly evaluate shotlines and get mathematically precise answers. That can be used for real-time geometry display, for measuring things, for identifying interferences, for computing properties, etc. That's BRL-CAD's primary niche specialty.

Re: BRL-CAD

#77
post #73
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another fun fact, BRL-CAD was started by Mike Muuss, author of the 'ping' networking tool. Brilliant computer scientist. Also, while it's evolved, the codebase predates nearly everything .. ansi c, c++, tcp/ip, opengl, version control, .. actively developed and funded since 1979.

> version control /me waves constructively, solidly at `brlcad Your list looks good until “version control”, for which at least sccs[0] began representing in 1972. I’m not used to catching `brlcad out at… anything, usually. Thought he might enjoy this “technically correct” (the best kind of correct) note. Not that the list isn’t impressive enough, and BRL-CAD impressive in its own right. And to think it started as a…

Haha, yes, that is technically correct, and the best kind. I probably should have qualified with an ambiguous "modern version control" or simply said it predates "RCS" (1982).

There's actually some indications BRL-CAD started in SCCS back around 1980, but any evidence of that is likely on old 10.5" magnetic data reel tapes that can't be read easily. So instead BRL-CAD's documented commit history spans from RCS import to CVS to SVN to Git.

Re: BRL-CAD

#78
post #70
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! That is the right repo. If you want to use it, I hold the copyright and we could relicense it. "My kingdom for a voice" [1] or maybe "My kingdom for a horse" [2] we did post an item about it on the BRL-CAD mailing list. The Common Lisp community didn't really notice Tovero 2.0 for Common Lisp either. I was actually thinking about trying a Common Lisp wrapper of BRL-CAD, or maybe doing a native CL port. [1] RE…

It looks like your e-mail was the victim of my paternity leave... it's still in my inbox. I do recall Dr. Rai commenting on your post, but didn't get a chance to explore it in any detail at the time. Remotely related, I've always thought a really fun lisp project would be to create an Emacs major mode for BRL-CAD. Either something to explore .g data (like tar mode) or an interactive editor like mged with lisp wrappin…

> It looks like your e-mail was the victim of my paternity leave

10 years is generous paternity leave. :) Seriously though, no hard feelings, separating the wheat from the free software chaff takes time--ask me how I know.

> interactive editor like mged with lisp wrapping BRL-CAD's libged editing library

That interests me!

IME, I have found S-expressions to be an elegant, succinct way of expressing geometric models (especially in the F-rep domain):

https://github.com/JMC-design/tovero/blob/master/examples/ro...

I wrote a referencing counting C++ reader/writer for S-expression models like that directly into Open Inventor, in place of the IV (VRML) format, avoiding the use of CL.

Emacs has a C FFI, IIRC, so it should be possible to develop a S-exp formatted BRL-CAD model in elisp, with the right C shims--giving a live-coding, REPL experience for building BRL-CAD models.

Thanks for your work on BRL-CAD!

Re: BRL-CAD

#79
post #71
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another interesting fact: The BRL of BRL-CAD is the Ballistic Research Laboratory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_Research_Laboratory which developed, along with the Penn, the first general-purpose digital computer ENIAC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENIAC

Another fun fact, BRL-CAD was started by Mike Muuss, author of the 'ping' networking tool. Brilliant computer scientist. Also, while it's evolved, the codebase predates nearly everything .. ansi c, c++, tcp/ip, opengl, version control, .. actively developed and funded since 1979.

BRL-CAD was open-sourced in 2004. MIT Scheme was released as free software in 1986 after being started somewhere near 1979 (which was about the time I started programming in Basic, using the TRS-80 and Apple II). The initial revision of the MIT git repo is dated December 1986--I think it started in RCS. The original license was some variation of the MIT one, which requested that changes be sent back to the team if at all possible, with a request to tell them what the use was. They changed to the GPL around release 7 or 8.

My first language was FORTRAN 66, learned from a book in the library, but on paper only as I had no access to a computer until a couple years later in 1979.

Re: BRL-CAD

#80
post #79
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another fun fact, BRL-CAD was started by Mike Muuss, author of the 'ping' networking tool. Brilliant computer scientist. Also, while it's evolved, the codebase predates nearly everything .. ansi c, c++, tcp/ip, opengl, version control, .. actively developed and funded since 1979.

BRL-CAD was open-sourced in 2004. MIT Scheme was released as free software in 1986 after being started somewhere near 1979 (which was about the time I started programming in Basic, using the TRS-80 and Apple II). The initial revision of the MIT git repo is dated December 1986--I think it started in RCS. The original license was some variation of the MIT one, which requested that changes be sent back to the team if at…

The point of which, looking back at this comment, is that I'm older than BRL-CAD. :)
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