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How to lose time and money

paulgraham.com

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Re: How to lose time and money

#71

Post by gizzlon »

nandemo wrote: post #52
fferen wrote: post #5

I think this ties into the idea of MMORPGs. I used to play them a lot until I realized they were not fun, just addictive; they make you feel like you're accomplishing something by leveling and gaining skills, when really it's only your character that's improving - you're not getting better at anything.

Paul contrasts two situations, the first exemplified by the "watching TV all day" example, the second by "staying all day at the office doing busywork while not accomplishing much". Playing MMORPGs all day seems rather like the first, not the second.

Really? I disagree.. Wow often felt like "busywork", especially compared to other games, that are actually fun most of the time.

The grinding kil-15-wolfs type of missions often had me going: "ok, only 3 left.. phew"

Re: How to lose time and money

#72

Post by megablast »

_gd3l wrote: post #20

"People fright at the concept of losing their money, yet they slave away their time without a second thought." -Seneca the Younger, from Letters from a Stoic (highly recommended) I think slaving away doing something you hate is far more harmful than "wasting" time having fun. I get more out of playing hacky sack and/or listening to podcasts than any homework or school work. So, in relation to this article, I think we…

>> I get more out of playing hacky sack and/or listening to podcasts than any homework or school work.

Do you? How do you know? Certainly it feels more fun, maybe you feel less stressed afterwards, but does this bias your decision making? Certainly in the long term you could be wrong.

Re: How to lose time and money

#73

Post by jwdunne »

gizzlon wrote: post #71
nandemo wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paul contrasts two situations, the first exemplified by the "watching TV all day" example, the second by "staying all day at the office doing busywork while not accomplishing much". Playing MMORPGs all day seems rather like the first, not the second.

Really? I disagree.. Wow often felt like "busywork", especially compared to other games, that are actually fun most of the time. The grinding kil-15-wolfs type of missions often had me going: "ok, only 3 left.. phew"

I do have to disagree with you. "busywork" makes it look like you're doing work. Often you can get away with it. You might very well be doing work but you're not really doing anything of value.

World of Warcraft can feel like work but you're not really trying to pass it off as work. If you managed to do that, who ever you work for certainly has some issues!

Re: How to lose time and money

#74

Post by gizzlon »

jwdunne wrote: post #73
gizzlon wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I disagree.. Wow often felt like "busywork", especially compared to other games, that are actually fun most of the time. The grinding kil-15-wolfs type of missions often had me going: "ok, only 3 left.. phew"

I do have to disagree with you. "busywork" makes it look like you're doing work. Often you can get away with it. You might very well be doing work but you're not really doing anything of value. World of Warcraft can feel like work but you're not really trying to pass it off as work. If you managed to do that, who ever you work for certainly has some issues!

ah, you're right.. s/busywork/work/

Re: How to lose time and money

#76

Post by Evernoob »

Andi wrote: post #70

PS: I have never played MMORPGs. Did I miss anything?

The social aspect and the feeling of being in a living and breathing fantasy world is quite intoxicating at first. I do agree that you need to be mindful of the fact that it is just a game and should be played for fun. It is not an achievement and is not helping to further your life any more than any other form of entertainment. It can be very easy to sink a lot of time into those things, but they are fun while they last.

Re: How to lose time and money

#77

Post by rick888 »

_gd3l wrote: post #20

"People fright at the concept of losing their money, yet they slave away their time without a second thought." -Seneca the Younger, from Letters from a Stoic (highly recommended) I think slaving away doing something you hate is far more harmful than "wasting" time having fun. I get more out of playing hacky sack and/or listening to podcasts than any homework or school work. So, in relation to this article, I think we…

I feel this way about working for other people.

If I'm going to slave away for 8+ hours/day on something, I would rather have it make me rich than someone else.

Re: How to lose time and money

#78

Post by tomjen3 »

gbog wrote: post #7

This short essay is not pg at his best in my view. Spending time having fun is Plain Good, and necessary, even for the most focused startup founder. But watching TV don't count obviously. Playing cards with friends at a terasse does.

I have to disagree with the TV does not obviously not count part.

I will argue that whatching TV can be good, provided that you really enjoy it. There is nothing inherently better about reading a book over watching a show if you enjoy yourself.

The key is to actively choose something that you like to do and then do it. Don't watch TV mindlessly. But don't hang out with mindless friends either.

Re: How to lose time and money

#79

Post by MrMan »

_gd3l wrote: post #20

"People fright at the concept of losing their money, yet they slave away their time without a second thought." -Seneca the Younger, from Letters from a Stoic (highly recommended) I think slaving away doing something you hate is far more harmful than "wasting" time having fun. I get more out of playing hacky sack and/or listening to podcasts than any homework or school work. So, in relation to this article, I think we…

Great Seneca quote. Puts into perspective bloggers' tendency to think that repackaging old conventional wisdom can pass for actual wisdom.

Re: How to lose time and money

#80

Post by guard-of-terra »

jdh wrote: post #10
fferen wrote: post #5

I think this ties into the idea of MMORPGs. I used to play them a lot until I realized they were not fun, just addictive; they make you feel like you're accomplishing something by leveling and gaining skills, when really it's only your character that's improving - you're not getting better at anything.

I felt this way a decade ago when my wife and I rented Season 1 of the show 24. I never enjoyed it, but felt strangely compelled to find out what happened in the next episode, and would stay up too late watching. After one season I decided that was enough of that addiction.

In my experience 24 was pretty fun (we LOVED the main character) until they nuked the fridge in the later episodes.

Same thing with Warehouse 13.

But that wasn't boredom-related. Perhaps you just don't match with this series and should have stopped earlier.

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