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Libraries – how companies do not understand open spaces

mtajchert.com

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Re: Libraries – how companies do not understand open spaces

#71

Post by ghaff »

PaulRobinson wrote: post #50
mr_tristan wrote: post #8

It is interesting to use a library as a model, but I would be amazed that you could get any particular company to understand and implement it. I could see teams having dedicated coworking areas that are extended from a large central open area. But, I could also predict that people would just carry their discussions into the open area, and constantly walk up and disturb the peace by asking "quick questions" anyway. An…

I'm curious about how we got to a place where we can assume that our colleagues will disrespect other colleagues and laugh at those asking for more respect. I'm not saying you're wrong, but there is something quite horrid about a working culture where we think that might ever happen. If you say "this big open space is like a library: no fixed desks, sit where you want; we expect quiet, there is a 'librarian' who is e…

One of our buildings has a space designated as "the library" with (as I recall) mostly standard study carrells that are pretty much as you describe. No fixed desks or reservations. You just find a space to read or work on your laptop. I'm not in that building very often but it's always seemed pretty quiet to me. Though to be honest when I've traveled there I often just worked out of the cafeteria because pre-pandemic I'd often run into people I knew.

ADDED: One practice which probably makes sense is to physically separate a quiet reading room from other areas. That way people aren't wandering by and having conversations.

Re: Libraries – how companies do not understand open spaces

#72

Post by Heyso »

greatgib wrote: post #52

There no point comparing a library to a work open space. Please, tell me what is the point to go physically at work in an open space instead of doing remote work if it is to have the rules of a library? Not interacting with colleagues, not calling, not listening others speaking to know what is currently going on the company...

I agree, as a dev, going to office is mostly to coordinate and socialize. I work much better from home. I worked in an open space, where the rule was "if you have more than 1min conversation, move out".

In the team I was, we often talked with each others, be it work related or not. So we ended up often working in others places together (one room for us 3-4 devs).

Re: Libraries – how companies do not understand open spaces

#73

Post by pain2022 »

pramodbiligiri wrote: post #42
bruce511 wrote: post #28

So back in the day we solved the open office problem by putting walks and doors around each worker. We moved premises and took the opportunity to give everyone a (small) office with a door. About 70% of our actual floor plan was for common open space - big kitchen, diner, lounge etc. But for work you had a private space with a door. Over 10 years later we bought another company and had their local staff over for a vi…

I've heard of this appealing design called "Eudaimonia Machine" that combines spaces for deep work and spaces for collaboration [1]. I would love to know if any companies have tried this out. [1] - https://medium.com/@jsmathison/i-cant-stop-dreaming-of-eudai...

Would be nice if the article about office space design had any photos or floor plans or images besides 3 stock photos

Re: Libraries – how companies do not understand open spaces

#74

Post by Heyso »

happytoexplain wrote: post #6
tajchert wrote: post #2

With remote work, open spaces from hell are (hopefully) a thing of the past, but key learnings on proper room culture are still valid after almost 200 years. How 400 people can work in deep focus in library but cannot do the same in company open space?

Maybe I have a psychological problem that most people don't have, but I can't work on a monitor that is publicly visible.

In my case, sometimes I like to move, lie on my bed a few minutes, when I am thinking. Can't do in open office.

I also don't have half my focus spent on my surrouding (who's saying what, who's moving, who's looking at me for attention...).

I also don't have project managers or commercials chatting around me. I am getting stressed if someone pass by closely behind me.

Re: Libraries – how companies do not understand open spaces

#75

Post by karaterobot »

> I encourage all of you to visit your nearby library and spend some time there.

I go to the library pretty much every week. I would describe it as quieter than the open plan office I used to work in, but much louder than my home office. People frequently carry on full conversations on their phones in the library, and some people just sit and chat with their neighbors.

I don't think the stereotype of libraries as hushed temples of study is true anymore, except in some specific cases. In the 2000s, a lot of local library branches in my area pivoted into being community gathering places and general resource hubs, and the norms around making noise changed a bit. I've never heard a librarian shush anybody for talking.

Re: Libraries – how companies do not understand open spaces

#76

Post by ghaff »

bachmitre wrote: post #9

I think once you allow eating at the tables and have everyone hammering their keyboards (as opposed to mostly reading) there won't be much of a difference to an open office anymore

Having been in the reading room of a library that doesn't allow food and drink and a good half the people on keyboards, it really is much more subdued than an open office would be.

Re: Libraries – how companies do not understand open spaces

#77

Post by cratermoon »

spoonjim wrote: post #24
cratermoon wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are not working collaboratively in open-plan offices. "Recent research shows that such offices result in 73 per cent less face-to-face interaction, and a 67 per cent increase in email interaction." https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/325959

I believe it about open plan vs private offices, but this is a comparison between offices in general and libraries (which have effectively zero collaboration)

Not offices in general, but open plan offices specifically.

Re: Libraries – how companies do not understand open spaces

#78

Post by cratermoon »

greatgib wrote: post #52

There no point comparing a library to a work open space. Please, tell me what is the point to go physically at work in an open space instead of doing remote work if it is to have the rules of a library? Not interacting with colleagues, not calling, not listening others speaking to know what is currently going on the company...

Many of my co-workers with families have mentioned they prefer the office. They aren't fortunate enough to be able to afford a large house where everyone can have a private working space. Many houses have a single office space, perhaps a converted den, but how many have office space for two remote workers, plus the kids? How well does the home internet hold up when 4-5 people are all video conferencing?

Re: Libraries – how companies do not understand open spaces

#79

Post by Sir_Liigmaz »

austinjp wrote: post #58
brabel wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My wife on the contrary loves going to the office although she could work from home. Does she go to the office for the actual work? Or because she is social?

Both? Can she work better in a social setting? Nothing wrong with that.

There are plenty of people who work better in a non-social setting. Work is work. It does not need to be social. I do not want it to be social.

I don't want to be friends with my co-workers. I am here for a paycheck. Sue me.

Re: Libraries – how companies do not understand open spaces

#80

Post by hjwp3 »

deepdriver wrote: post #41
theonething wrote: post #34

I rarely have every experienced a library where it was quiet enough to do deep work. There is always that one (or more) person that ruins it. Talking loud, talking on their phone, even watching a show on their laptop out loud. This is in the US. The worst I experienced was in Singapore. Kids running around like it was a playground. Or teenage couples using it as a place to date. The last one is a big wtf head scratch…

>This is in the US. In both my current and previous US city, downtown libraries function as de facto daytime homeless shelters. On the one hand this is good, as people in unfortunate circumstances can get Internet access, apply for jobs, and retain access to email. On the other hand some of those people browse porn, play music, and watch videos without headphones on the library computers. Others wander in off the str…

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