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I still love PHP and JavaScript

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Re: I still love PHP and JavaScript

#71

Post by piperswe »

datalopers wrote: post #63
lkrubner wrote: post #51

PHP was my main language from 2000 to 2011. I liked PHP 4 very much. "Pass by value" was the default, so it accidentally introduced me to the Functional paradigm, even though it didn't have the memory management to allow for real functional programming. (It did not internally share memory between old and new versions of an object.) I dislike the direction that PHP has taken since the introduction of PHP 5. For the la…

> I don't think anyone would pick PHP purely on the basis of speed, again, there are many languages that are faster. When it comes to interpreted languages (perl, python, ruby, js), PHP is hands down the fastest.

You mention JS - I would be interested in seeing any benchmarks where the PHP interpreter beats V8.

Re: I still love PHP and JavaScript

#73

Post by user3939382 »

paxys wrote: post #33
tiffanyh wrote: post #4

PHP has so many hidden benefits: - it's stateless by design (much easier to scale) - it was "serverless" before Serverless - surprisingly performant - no "unknown unknowns". it's so tried-and-true, there's no surprises - deployment is so simple, just drop a file on a web server. No middleware needed. - No long compile times because there is no compiling needed. EDIT: why the downvotes? If you don't agree, just reply…

> - no "unknown unknowns". it's so tried-and-true, there's no surprises This part is laughable. People who have been programming PHP for 20 years (several of them at my company) still routinely discover hidden bugs, quirks or general behavior that is totally unintuitive and nowhere found in the documentation.

I’ve been using PHP since 2003 and it’s my full time job and this doesn’t ring true. Very, very rarely is a gotcha not in the docs comment section.

Re: I still love PHP and JavaScript

#74

Post by pkrumins »

tiffanyh wrote: post #4

PHP has so many hidden benefits: - it's stateless by design (much easier to scale) - it was "serverless" before Serverless - surprisingly performant - no "unknown unknowns". it's so tried-and-true, there's no surprises - deployment is so simple, just drop a file on a web server. No middleware needed. - No long compile times because there is no compiling needed. EDIT: why the downvotes? If you don't agree, just reply…

Amen. You get it 100%. Come work for me!

Re: I still love PHP and JavaScript

#75

Post by brightball »

tiffanyh wrote: post #4

PHP has so many hidden benefits: - it's stateless by design (much easier to scale) - it was "serverless" before Serverless - surprisingly performant - no "unknown unknowns". it's so tried-and-true, there's no surprises - deployment is so simple, just drop a file on a web server. No middleware needed. - No long compile times because there is no compiling needed. EDIT: why the downvotes? If you don't agree, just reply…

First 10 years of my career were heavy PHP. I’m solidly into Ruby and Elixir now, but I completely agree with you on the perks of PHP. People love to hate on it.

https://www.brightball.com/articles/no-such-thing-as-real-pr...

(Old article with a lot of dead links now, just FYI).

Re: I still love PHP and JavaScript

#76

Post by datalopers »

piperswe wrote: post #71
datalopers wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think anyone would pick PHP purely on the basis of speed, again, there are many languages that are faster. When it comes to interpreted languages (perl, python, ruby, js), PHP is hands down the fastest.

You mention JS - I would be interested in seeing any benchmarks where the PHP interpreter beats V8.

These are web frameworks specifically but a good broad suite of examples: https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r21&l=z...

An amazingly fast specialized JS runtime solution [1][2] does indeed have the #1 spot on the most recent rounds, but full PHP frameworks hold spots #2 - 29 and then it's a mixture of PHP and JS all the way to #58 before we see the first other language (python, uvicorn) emerge.

[1] https://github.com/TechEmpower/FrameworkBenchmarks/tree/mast...

[2] https://github.com/just-js

Re: I still love PHP and JavaScript

#77

Post by pkrumins »

paxys wrote: post #33
tiffanyh wrote: post #4

PHP has so many hidden benefits: - it's stateless by design (much easier to scale) - it was "serverless" before Serverless - surprisingly performant - no "unknown unknowns". it's so tried-and-true, there's no surprises - deployment is so simple, just drop a file on a web server. No middleware needed. - No long compile times because there is no compiling needed. EDIT: why the downvotes? If you don't agree, just reply…

> - no "unknown unknowns". it's so tried-and-true, there's no surprises This part is laughable. People who have been programming PHP for 20 years (several of them at my company) still routinely discover hidden bugs, quirks or general behavior that is totally unintuitive and nowhere found in the documentation.

It literally doesn’t matter. You fix the bug, deploy, and move on on.

Re: I still love PHP and JavaScript

#78

Post by pkrumins »

user3939382 wrote: post #73
paxys wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - no "unknown unknowns". it's so tried-and-true, there's no surprises This part is laughable. People who have been programming PHP for 20 years (several of them at my company) still routinely discover hidden bugs, quirks or general behavior that is totally unintuitive and nowhere found in the documentation.

I’ve been using PHP since 2003 and it’s my full time job and this doesn’t ring true. Very, very rarely is a gotcha not in the docs comment section.

Exactly. You get it 100%. Come work for me!

Re: I still love PHP and JavaScript

#79

Post by paulryanrogers »

Glyptodon wrote: post #29
tiffanyh wrote: post #4

PHP has so many hidden benefits: - it's stateless by design (much easier to scale) - it was "serverless" before Serverless - surprisingly performant - no "unknown unknowns". it's so tried-and-true, there's no surprises - deployment is so simple, just drop a file on a web server. No middleware needed. - No long compile times because there is no compiling needed. EDIT: why the downvotes? If you don't agree, just reply…

Did they get rid of the giant config file with all the interpreter options that can seem like they shouldn't exist? (I do like modern PHP well enough.)

PHP.ini is alive and well. Some foot guns have been deprecated

Re: I still love PHP and JavaScript

#80

Post by pkrumins »

miffy900 wrote: post #66
tiffanyh wrote: post #4

PHP has so many hidden benefits: - it's stateless by design (much easier to scale) - it was "serverless" before Serverless - surprisingly performant - no "unknown unknowns". it's so tried-and-true, there's no surprises - deployment is so simple, just drop a file on a web server. No middleware needed. - No long compile times because there is no compiling needed. EDIT: why the downvotes? If you don't agree, just reply…

> - no "unknown unknowns". it's so tried-and-true, there's no surprises I've always been a fan of PHP too; it was my first programming language that I used to build a shipping application, but saying there are 'no unknown unknowns' in a language as quirky and old as PHP is akin to denying the sky is blue. PHP 4 + 5 had so many weird quirks, and they lasted a long time because PHP 7 took so long to ship (note there wa…

I strictly use PHP5 with no updates as everything is well known and code I wrote in 2000 will work for decades. If it ain’t broke, don’t upgrade it!
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