The endless search for a crypto use case • Hacker News Board

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#71

Post by bitxbitxbitcoin » Tue, Aug 02, 2022, 5:07 PM UTC

ragnot wrote: post #56

xadhominemx wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You still have no answer for the crypto on/off ramp issue.

I think the idea would be that in a scenario where crypto becomes a currency, there wouldn't need to be an off-ramp (at least immediately, think war/revolution). You would trade the crypto like "real" money.

There's another likely scenario (at least in my mind) where Bitcoin is a global reserve "currency" like gold used to be. In this instance, the on/off ramps that exist already would still likely be the ones around. That is to say, completely centralized instiutions that interface with completely centralized fiat currencies. Bitcoin isn't going to replace countries, countries will likely have fiat stablecoins which is exactly where our increasingly cashless societies are headed towards.

tldr; either the crypto itself is traded like real money, or a l2 or even centralized unconnected layer is - either way on/off ramps that currently exist (p2p and centralized) continue to exist and thrive.

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#72

Post by anonymoushn » Tue, Aug 02, 2022, 5:07 PM UTC

Currently we've hired more than 0 people through a global outsourcing company. The outsourcing company sends us invoices, we wire them dollars, they charge us 3% on top of extremely bad forex rates plus 10% for their services, then a local company who's hired "our staff" processes payroll, pays local taxes and insurance, etc. The whole process of getting the money to the recipient takes days to a month.

Currently we have more than 0 staff who have been displaced by a war and do not have good access to local banking, so we pay them in dollar stablecoins. This does not cost ~15% and does not have a latency of days to a month.

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#73

Post by JohnFen » Tue, Aug 02, 2022, 5:07 PM UTC

olalonde wrote: post #14

To me, the fact that Bitcoin is a money out of the hands of governments, or anyone really, is the use case. It's also cool that you can use your brain to effectively store your money. Of course, if you believe that governments are good stewards of money, you will probably not find a use case.

The problem, though, is that you give up the benefits of working within a regulated system. Things like being able to stop or reverse mistaken or fraudulent transfers, protections from fraud, protections from whoever is handling your money for you (with crypto, someone is still handling your money for you) going out of business, etc.

Everything has an upside and a downside. But in the regulated system, you at least have a chance at some sort of recourse if something goes sideways.

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#74

Post by toolz » Tue, Aug 02, 2022, 5:08 PM UTC

jayd16 wrote: post #45

snapcaster wrote: post #3

I mean it has good use cases they're not just the ones that scheme promoters want to be true. I know TFA pokes some holes in the censorship resistance attribute of bitcoin but i think everyone can agree it does provide value transfer solution that is much harder to block than Visa/Stripe/etc. 1). Silk Road or dark net markets in general. Can't be done with Visa or other existing solutions at any kind of scale 2). Fun…

Three of these are just money laundering and then the 4th is "and maybe some cool ideas." I really don't see how the money laundering is a long term niche. They'll get regulated eventually. I do think the whole event has dredged up some interesting ideas and desires that were being ignored, but of lot of those "cool promise here" ideas could probably work without a blockchain.

Let's take a modern example of the canadian truckers. How would you get money to them when Canada was able to get US companies to block their funding with fiat?

Use a different company and hope another few million doesn't get locked up? That seems like the only alternative and I'm not sure many people would think that's a viable alternative.

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#75

Post by tresqotheq » Tue, Aug 02, 2022, 5:08 PM UTC

TremendousJudge wrote: post #63

olalonde wrote: post #14

To me, the fact that Bitcoin is a money out of the hands of governments, or anyone really, is the use case. It's also cool that you can use your brain to effectively store your money. Of course, if you believe that governments are good stewards of money, you will probably not find a use case.

Is it really? If you can't change it for goods and services before turning it back into regular, government controlled currency, is it out of the hands of governments? If China can get all the miners to move to Kazakhstan, were they ever out of government control?

> If you can't change it for goods and services ..

There is nothing preventing someone from accepting it and providing the services you need.

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#76

Post by silentsea90 » Tue, Aug 02, 2022, 5:08 PM UTC

TremendousJudge wrote: post #63

olalonde wrote: post #14

To me, the fact that Bitcoin is a money out of the hands of governments, or anyone really, is the use case. It's also cool that you can use your brain to effectively store your money. Of course, if you believe that governments are good stewards of money, you will probably not find a use case.

Is it really? If you can't change it for goods and services before turning it back into regular, government controlled currency, is it out of the hands of governments? If China can get all the miners to move to Kazakhstan, were they ever out of government control?

You may have answered your own question. You don't need to turn it back into fiat for it to be used in the long run. Lightning network makes txns quick and cheap, and BTC volatility has been going down enough that it isn't hard to imagine it being stabler short term against fiat (though long term it will gain value as fiat collapses)

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#77

Post by game-of-throws » Tue, Aug 02, 2022, 5:08 PM UTC

xadhominemx wrote: post #38

game-of-throws wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My theory is that the likelihood someone understands the use cases is inversely correlated to their trust in government. For example: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60912789 These articles all follow a common pattern. 1. The trigger – Inflation/distrust in government/bank withdrawal restrictions/paypal freezes your funds/country is at war/etc 2. The response – People gravitate towards a system that is resilient to…

You still have no answer for the crypto on/off ramp issue.

If someone is trying to escape their local currency, they won't want an on/off ramp. In foreign nations with a large underground USD economy, people skip the local currency and trade/spend USD directly. The same could happen with BTC. In fact in the most extreme cases this transformation is already happening: https://www.reuters.com/technology/venezuelas-economy-regres...

> But a major part of Venezuela's crypto operations involves businesses swapping out of bolivars to beat inflation, said economist and finance expert Aaron Olmos.

> "Nobody is going to tell you 'every night when we do the books, we convert bolivars into bitcoin,' but yes, this is happening."

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#78

Post by tremarley » Tue, Aug 02, 2022, 5:09 PM UTC

yaseer wrote: post #39

I'm reminded of the pictures of New York in 1900 and 1913. Within those 13 years, the car had changed the world. https://www.businessinsider.com/5th-ave-1900-vs-1913-2011-3?... The iPhone and smartphone revolution clearly did the same, last decade. We're now 14 years into Bitcoin. Is it ever likely to change the world the same way?

It has changed the world already. Many countries buy and stockpile bitcoin, similar to what they do with gold.

This currency was made by a bloke on computer 14 years ago, and has revolutionised the way we view ownership, freedoms and money.

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#79

Post by WalterSear » Tue, Aug 02, 2022, 5:09 PM UTC

silentsea90 wrote: post #61

snapcaster wrote: post #3

I mean it has good use cases they're not just the ones that scheme promoters want to be true. I know TFA pokes some holes in the censorship resistance attribute of bitcoin but i think everyone can agree it does provide value transfer solution that is much harder to block than Visa/Stripe/etc. 1). Silk Road or dark net markets in general. Can't be done with Visa or other existing solutions at any kind of scale 2). Fun…

The biggest use case for Bitcoin is of it being an escape from arbitrary printing of money by central banks. The richer your home country, the further you are from intuitively grasping how catastrophic printing is in the long run.

Bitcoin's price is primarily driven by market manipulation fueled by arbitrary Tether-tron printing. Tether-tron is used entirely internally by a criminal syndicate in order to create fraudulent chinese 'cookie cutter' exchanges, in a manner similar to casino chips - ie - "Here's $100 million for your new exchange, that you can only use to buy crypto within 'the family', incidentally pumping up their prices along the way'".

This is in addition to the arbitrary Tether-eth printing that you ought to be well aware of.

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#80

Post by xadhominemx » Tue, Aug 02, 2022, 5:09 PM UTC

ragnot wrote: post #56

xadhominemx wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You still have no answer for the crypto on/off ramp issue.

I think the idea would be that in a scenario where crypto becomes a currency, there wouldn't need to be an off-ramp (at least immediately, think war/revolution). You would trade the crypto like "real" money.

You still need an on-ramp inside of the authoritarian country you want to depart