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In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

news.yale.edu

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Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#71

Post by nxm »

macspoofing wrote: post #56
ramesh31 wrote: post #3

Quoted post unavailable.

>Why do we suddenly have a problem now that it's advantageous? Something about judging someone based on the content of their character, and not color of their skin. I never really understood why we couldn't reach our societal goals by simply focusing on class, instead of race. A poor black American has much more in common with a poor white American, then with an affluent black American, especially as it pertains to a…

Yes, and one argument is to divide us and focus on race over so we don’t go for the overly rich

Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#72

Post by scythe »

aceHN wrote: post #48

If your goal is equal opportunity you can look at socioeconomic class without considering race. Fundamentally the idea that race must be considered to achieve diversity is an inherently racist idea - you don't believe some races will get in without help.

It should be noted that neither class nor race is a reindeer-style glowing red nose. There's an recent trend in England of people faking lower-class roots to take advantage of targeted programs, and there are indicators that white Americans are pretending Native ancestry for college admission.

Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#73

Post by Ekaros »

longtimelistnr wrote: post #14
dbsights wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same reason we should have had a problem with it then. If racism is wrong, then it shouldn't matter which race.

Sure but this isn’t racism, it’s compensating for inequalities that are not fixable by “trying harder” or any individuals personal responsibility.

Actually it seems that trying harder in case of Asians is being punished. They have highest meritocratic scores and are being punished for it... That from engineering view point seems just insane.

Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#74

Post by colechristensen »

colinmhayes wrote: post #29
colechristensen wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eventually you have to stop using racism to "fix" racism.

I don’t think anyone disagrees. The question is just when.

I think many people disagree or have never thought of an endgame, thinking culturally different groups of people can be "given" equality.

Likewise what actually equality is is not thought about.

In other words people fighting this fight have no idea what winning it looks like.

Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#76

Post by [deleted] »

zmgsabst wrote: post #66
TameAntelope wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not racism, as for it to be racist it would have to support the idea that people of one race are inherently superior in some form or another to another race. Adjusting representation is not making any claim whatsoever about ability around members of any race, it's attempting to adjust for those kinds of claims that have already (falsely) been made. Nobody who is implementing these policies in any of these Ivy L…

Quoted post unavailable.

[deleted]

Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#77

Post by sanity31415 »

xiande04 wrote: post #40
tomrod wrote: post #2

I didn't realize college admissions' affirmative action had reached SCOTUS. I wonder what the outcome will be. Key summary: > "Today Yale joined peer institutions in stating emphatically that student diversity is essential to the missions of American universities and promotes educational excellence for all students,” President Peter Salovey said. “Our amicus curiae brief makes clear that the way we consider race and…

I think the goal of using race in admissions is more about giving disadvantaged people an advantage rather than increasing "diversity of thought".

Assuming people are "disadvantaged" simply because of the color of their skin is a textbook example of "the soft bigotry of low expectations".

Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#78

Post by btilly »

tomrod wrote: post #44
Invictus0 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Ivy leagues today are anything but diverse in thought, this should be obvious. What actually exists is a repressive liberal orthodoxy, and no dissent is tolerated. I ought to expand on this since this comment will surely be controversial. I make no comment on which view is right or wrong; but suppose the conservative view were favored, and any disagreement with the ideology got your fired from your job, publicly…

This is pretty far removed from my direct experience with Ivy League alumni and professors (coauthors, colleagues, coworkers). It is a common refrain though. Elements of conservatism are sometimes viewed as being eschewed when they are ideologically based and the evidence doesn't support claims. But this is true generally and a consequence of the academic incentive structure where there are never enough resources to…

It is not at all removed from my direct experience. (And I am, in fact, an Ivy League alumnus.)

See https://www.econlib.org/archives/2015/03/the_prevalence_1.ht... for the shocking level of acceptance of Marxist ideas in the social sciences, despite a lack of anything resembling evidence for it. And a tremendous amount of evidence that attempts at implementing Marxism have done insane amounts of damage to the world.

Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#79

Post by TheMagicHorsey »

btilly wrote: post #33

To quote from the brief. Unlike applicants whose identities have been affected mainly by their socioeconomic or geographic circumstances, applicants whose formative experiences relate to race or ethnicity would be denied the opportunity to convey their full, authentic selves when competing for admission to selective schools like Amici. And so we guarantee that millions of Americans will have a formative experience th…

I really don't understand current progressive ideology. Apart from discrimination against Asians, there is also the whole "Hijab empowers women" nonsense. I come from a part of the world where women have to fight for the right to take off hijab. They are shunned socially for doing so. In worse places, they can be jailed or beaten.

Imagine coming from such a place to America, and seeing here women are wearing that symbol of oppression as a fashion statement. It just boggles the mind. Its analogous to if you were an American slave in 1800s, got your freedom and sailed to the UK. And on landing saw blacks in the UK wearing chains as a fashion accessory. It seems so disrespectful towards your struggle.

Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#80

Post by news_to_me »

tomrod wrote: post #2

I didn't realize college admissions' affirmative action had reached SCOTUS. I wonder what the outcome will be. Key summary: > "Today Yale joined peer institutions in stating emphatically that student diversity is essential to the missions of American universities and promotes educational excellence for all students,” President Peter Salovey said. “Our amicus curiae brief makes clear that the way we consider race and…

I don't think it's possible to have meaningful diversity of thought without diversity of background. That spans many attributes—race, economic status, where you grew up, etc. Race is obviously an important one, given how much it changes many people's experiences and perceptions.

I think diverse racial representation is important, but is maybe better viewed as an indicator of success rather than a metric to optimize. Especially at a university, diversity of thought and academic talent should be the primary factors (imo).

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