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End of the Machinery Game Engine

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: End of the Machinery Game Engine

#71

Post by tebjan »

KronisLV wrote: post #46

> ...you are requested to delete The Machinery source code and binaries. This is pretty weird. Then again, in regards to the engine itself dying, I feel like this is inevitable for many of the projects out there. For example, there was the Xenko engine which was later renamed to Stride: https://www.stride3d.net/ It's actually a nice project, has lots of great features and feels like it should be a more open alternati…

Godot is just older and more established, but Stride has a better render engine, software architecture and is a pure .NET project. So the engine and the scripting use the same technology. Godot has a C++ core and only "interprets" the scripting languages, which is conceptually quite different.

If you simply want to develop "standard" games, this might not be important to you. But if you are a .NET developer and you want to integrate anything from the .NET ecosytem, Stride is what you want.

Also, Stride has probably the best shader system in the world.

Re: End of the Machinery Game Engine

#72

Post by hammyhavoc »

tebjan wrote: post #70
hammyhavoc wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stride looks good, but am I right in thinking that unlike Godot, it doesn't support macOS or Linux as a deployment target?

Stride can deploy games to win, macOS, linux, iOS and android.

If that's the case then the website could really do with an update as that's the first thing any dev, studio or publisher looks at in 2022. "Can we reach our target demographic?"

Re: End of the Machinery Game Engine

#73

Post by 999900000999 »

tebjan wrote: post #71
KronisLV wrote: post #46

> ...you are requested to delete The Machinery source code and binaries. This is pretty weird. Then again, in regards to the engine itself dying, I feel like this is inevitable for many of the projects out there. For example, there was the Xenko engine which was later renamed to Stride: https://www.stride3d.net/ It's actually a nice project, has lots of great features and feels like it should be a more open alternati…

Godot is just older and more established, but Stride has a better render engine, software architecture and is a pure .NET project. So the engine and the scripting use the same technology. Godot has a C++ core and only "interprets" the scripting languages, which is conceptually quite different. If you simply want to develop "standard" games, this might not be important to you. But if you are a .NET developer and you w…

I want to like Stride, but the documentation is so sparse I had a hell of a time getting anything working.

Plus you need to use a PC to develop.

Now I'm thinking Unity assets could be adapted to work with Stride since both use C#. If so, switching from Unity to Stride won't be so bad.

Re: End of the Machinery Game Engine

#74

Post by josephcsible »

devd00d wrote: post #40
faeranne wrote: post #12

I'm sorry, is this in any way legal? Did they just tell people to delete their games? Like... I'm pretty sure this kind of rug pull would destroy any company that relies on this engine. 14 days for a full re-write is insane.

I doubt it's legal and it will certainly destroy companies. And what makes it worse, is that my best guess is that they are going to capitalize on this move. Maybe repackage it as some other high priced software. Either way, the whole company should be ashamed. I use Godot and now I'm wondering if this can't happen at Godot as well. Perhaps it's time to switch to Unity. You pay but at least they have sort of stood th…

> I use Godot and now I'm wondering if this can't happen at Godot as well. Perhaps it's time to switch to Unity. You pay but at least they have sort of stood the test of time.

No, it most definitely is not time to do that. This can't happen to Godot, since FOSS licenses are irrevocable. It can happen to Unity. You'd be moving from a zero chance to a small but nonzero chance if you did that.

Re: End of the Machinery Game Engine

#75

Post by tebjan »

hammyhavoc wrote: post #72
tebjan wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stride can deploy games to win, macOS, linux, iOS and android.

If that's the case then the website could really do with an update as that's the first thing any dev, studio or publisher looks at in 2022. "Can we reach our target demographic?"

Yes, it is only community driven, there is no fulltime dev working on it. But I've seen someone working on a website refresh.

If that's too slow for you, just edit the website here and make a PR with the info you were looking for: https://github.com/stride3d/stride-website

Re: End of the Machinery Game Engine

#76

Post by matheusmoreira »

Vespasian wrote: post #69
matheusmoreira wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most service agreements for enterprise agreements are negotiable, and certainly don't contain the above clauses. If you're a corporation, you have leverage which you can use to negotiate. Normal people don't, they are offered a take it or leave it deal and it's pretty much always what I described above.

That is right. For normal people the leverage comes mostly through market forces, consumer protection laws and regulations because then you are leveraging with your whole economy and sovereign power of your country. Not as good as individual leverage but better than nothing by a million miles.

Yes. It turns out consumer protection and market regulation forces are already making corporations change those terms. For example, I'm not seeing "no refunds" in terms anymore, I'm seeing "no refunds except for cases defined by law". Why not outline those cases so that consumers can understand their rights? Because they obviously don't want to have to refund anyone and would rather consumers remain ignorant of their rights.

I still see most if not all of the clauses I mentioned though in pretty much every terms of service I ever cared to check. We write "buy" on the website but you're not really buying anything, you're licensing it and therefore you own nothing and we can even retroactively take away that license for any reason. Warranty? There is none, products and services are offered as-is and we're not responsible if it's buggy beyond belief or if it gets breached and your personal data get leaked. Thinking about going to court against us? Oh look, you waived all rights to do so individually or as class action, and there's even a huge arbitration section detailing exactly how much of an uphill battle it will be for you should you try to exercise any consumer rights. We don't like it when you tinker with stuff you're not supposed to, so we've prohibited reverse engineering, scraping and everything related no matter how benign. We can totally take any measures we deem necessary in order to ensure your compliance though, like invading your privacy, scanning your system and exfiltrating data like malware but it's not really malware because technically you agreed to it.

In any real justice system, judges would take one look at these abusive clauses and invalidate them on the spot without even giving the corporation chance for recourse. Things are already changing though. Europe is passing laws designed to correct these power imbalances. My country is following their lead.

Re: End of the Machinery Game Engine

#77

Post by tebjan »

999900000999 wrote: post #73
tebjan wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Godot is just older and more established, but Stride has a better render engine, software architecture and is a pure .NET project. So the engine and the scripting use the same technology. Godot has a C++ core and only "interprets" the scripting languages, which is conceptually quite different. If you simply want to develop "standard" games, this might not be important to you. But if you are a .NET developer and you w…

I want to like Stride, but the documentation is so sparse I had a hell of a time getting anything working. Plus you need to use a PC to develop. Now I'm thinking Unity assets could be adapted to work with Stride since both use C#. If so, switching from Unity to Stride won't be so bad.

Yes, you can theoretically do code-only projects on mac and linux, but win is definitely the most comfortable dev platform for Stride.

Yea, some kind of converter for unity assets would be cool. But 3d assets should already work... And with other things from the Unity asset store you could run into licensing issue. But I don't know the details about that, might even vary from asset to asset.

Stride has pretty good written docs, for an open-source project. And there are quite some video tutorials on the docs page too. And there is also: https://doc.stride3d.net/4.0/en/manual/stride-for-unity-deve...

Re: End of the Machinery Game Engine

#78

Post by hammyhavoc »

tebjan wrote: post #75
hammyhavoc wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's the case then the website could really do with an update as that's the first thing any dev, studio or publisher looks at in 2022. "Can we reach our target demographic?"

Yes, it is only community driven, there is no fulltime dev working on it. But I've seen someone working on a website refresh. If that's too slow for you, just edit the website here and make a PR with the info you were looking for: https://github.com/stride3d/stride-website

It's not that it's too slow for me, it's that it isn't my place to do it, despite being a FOSS enthusiast. I don't use the project, have never tried it, and am currently heavily entrenched in Godot and Unreal. Looks very interesting, but switching mid-development won't happen. Furthermore, if it is apparently "dying", it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, sadly.

Rather than encourage me to change it, why don't you? You seem to know a lot more about it than I do for starters. In the time you engaged with me, you could have submitted the PR yourself and thanked me for the feedback. Herein lies why the project likely hasn't caught on—not enough focus on contributing.

Re: End of the Machinery Game Engine

#79

Post by 999900000999 »

tebjan wrote: post #77
999900000999 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to like Stride, but the documentation is so sparse I had a hell of a time getting anything working. Plus you need to use a PC to develop. Now I'm thinking Unity assets could be adapted to work with Stride since both use C#. If so, switching from Unity to Stride won't be so bad.

Yes, you can theoretically do code-only projects on mac and linux, but win is definitely the most comfortable dev platform for Stride. Yea, some kind of converter for unity assets would be cool. But 3d assets should already work... And with other things from the Unity asset store you could run into licensing issue. But I don't know the details about that, might even vary from asset to asset. Stride has pretty good wr…

As far as I can tell, as long as you pay for a unity asset and you don't just resell it by itself, you can use it in whatever way you want.

For example, if there's a nifty networking library for Unity and I adapted to use it somewhere else, as long as I don't resell the library, I should be fine. Practically I can't imagine an asset store author suing you for using the asset in a non-unity project.

I do vastly prefer a single language engine like Stride, versus Godot which supports visual scripting, GD script, and C#.

Re: End of the Machinery Game Engine

#80

Post by tebjan »

hammyhavoc wrote: post #78
tebjan wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is only community driven, there is no fulltime dev working on it. But I've seen someone working on a website refresh. If that's too slow for you, just edit the website here and make a PR with the info you were looking for: https://github.com/stride3d/stride-website

It's not that it's too slow for me, it's that it isn't my place to do it, despite being a FOSS enthusiast. I don't use the project, have never tried it, and am currently heavily entrenched in Godot and Unreal. Looks very interesting, but switching mid-development won't happen. Furthermore, if it is apparently "dying", it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, sadly. Rather than encourage me to change it, why don't you? You se…

My contributions to Stride are on the graphics and rendering side of things.

And as I said, someone is already working on a website refresh.

I'm not sure from what sources your personal assessment comes from, but from what I know about the project, it's incorrect.

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