How much emissions did that release compared to running a petrol bus?
Similar to a burning petrol bus.
After bus fire, CT pulls electric fleet from service
71–80 of 148 posts
Re: After bus fire, CT pulls electric fleet from service
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
According to the first statistic I found [1] there are about 180000 highway vehicle fires each year in the US, and in 26% of them the item that first ignited was "flammable or combustible liquid, gas filter or piping". So that's about 45000 gasoline fires a year in the US (if you don't count ones where the fire started somewhere else in the car). You just don't hear about them because they aren't newsworthy (precisel…
Some quick googling says tesla is ~70% [1] of the EV market and there is someone who claims to track every telsa fire [2] which has counts 97 fires since 2013. Compare that to 45k ICE vehicles fires every year and it appears that EVs are significantly less likely to catch fire. I think if you live in one of the top 50 metro areas of the US and listen to local traffic news between June-August you'll probably hear abou…
> Compare that to 45k ICE vehicles fires every year and it appears that EVs are significantly less likely to catch fire.
You haven't provided enough information to make a comparison.
Googling some numbers, Tesla has sold 2MM cars, so taking that 97 number we get 0.00004 fires per Tesla.
US has 275MM cars, and (2022 - 2012) * 45000 = 450000, so we have 0.00163 fires per ICE car.
Conclusion: If those numbers are correct, Teslas are two orders of magnitude less likely to catch fire.
Re: After bus fire, CT pulls electric fleet from service
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes. Good thing to ground them, but it also shows these vehicles are not ready. Even if its an act of sabotoge, like someone shooting at the battery. It would not happen with a regular diesel bus.
Umm, it did. In CT. Last month. https://archive.ph/FZ2wv
I think the difference here is that an EV battery fire quickly spreads to the entire length of the bus, because the battery spans the entire length of the bus internally. Whereas the diesel fire is contained to the fuel tank and engine block, which could allow passengers to more easily escape to whatever end of the bus isn't on fire.
New battery chemistries like LFP should solve the thermal runaway issue.
Re: After bus fire, CT pulls electric fleet from service
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
Umm, it did. In CT. Last month. https://archive.ph/FZ2wv
I think the difference here is that an EV battery fire quickly spreads to the entire length of the bus, because the battery spans the entire length of the bus internally. Whereas the diesel fire is contained to the fuel tank and engine block, which could allow passengers to more easily escape to whatever end of the bus isn't on fire. New battery chemistries like LFP should solve the thermal runaway issue.
> I think the difference here is that an EV battery fire quickly spreads to the entire length of the bus
It's an interesting theory, but I don't see it supported by these articles.
The entire diesel bus had its back third engulfed very quickly, from these sources.
The entire electric bus burned, but we don't have any information on the rate at which the fire propagated.
Re: After bus fire, CT pulls electric fleet from service
#75Battery buses are a solution ahead of their time. Any old bus is better than car-based transportation, so shifting modes from car to bus is more important than changing the energy source of the bus. If shifting from car to bus is impossible because of built environment, that's the first priority. Buses powered by batteries should be way down at the end of the TODO list. If you absolutely insist on having buses that a…
I suspect that you don't live in europe. In london, buses are a massive source of particulate and nitrogen pollution. We've had hybrid buses for a good 5 years, some hydrogen ones as well (but only one or two routes) However london has rolled out 100% electric buses in the last 3 years, and they've not caught fire at a faster rate than the diesel ones.
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Re: After bus fire, CT pulls electric fleet from service
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
The napalm bomb you're speaking of is made of gasoline. Which is in most cars and vehicles on the road. So you're less afraid of something designed to catch fire and explode (gas) than something that is designed to operate safely at it's core (batteries)? That just doesn't make sense. Other than being afraid of new technology. And that's totally ok. Its fine to say you don't like change or new technologies. There is…
But ICE engines have had over 100 years of continuous testing and deployment on a mass scale. The risks and dangers are fairly well known now. EV's lag far behind that. Perhaps they should be deployed in smaller passenger vehicles before attempting trucks and buses.
They have been deployed in smaller passenger vehicles for well over 10 years now. Nissan Leaf... Tesla... etc.
Re: After bus fire, CT pulls electric fleet from service
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
Some quick googling says tesla is ~70% [1] of the EV market and there is someone who claims to track every telsa fire [2] which has counts 97 fires since 2013. Compare that to 45k ICE vehicles fires every year and it appears that EVs are significantly less likely to catch fire. I think if you live in one of the top 50 metro areas of the US and listen to local traffic news between June-August you'll probably hear abou…
> Compare that to 45k ICE vehicles fires every year and it appears that EVs are significantly less likely to catch fire. You haven't provided enough information to make a comparison. Googling some numbers, Tesla has sold 2MM cars, so taking that 97 number we get 0.00004 fires per Tesla. US has 275MM cars, and (2022 - 2012) * 45000 = 450000, so we have 0.00163 fires per ICE car. Conclusion: If those numbers are correc…
I bet if you control for vehicle age and economic status, EVs combust at the same rate as gasoline vehicles
Re: After bus fire, CT pulls electric fleet from service
#78Re: After bus fire, CT pulls electric fleet from service
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're both widely overestimating the fire risk. It shouldn't even be a consideration from the consumer perspective. The color of the car probably matters more.
If this (one of many) example doesn't scare you, well then you're braver than I am: https://youtu.be/sAQlLu5ttOk?t=77
I watch videos and documentaries about plane crashes all the time, and yet I am not afraid of flying because I understand the safety culture and statistics of the industry.
If you are afraid of your car, regardless of motive power source, bursting into flames without warning, then you shouldn't own a car, because tens of thousands of people die in car crashes every year, and for most of them they experienced no warning and could not have forseen their death.
Re: After bus fire, CT pulls electric fleet from service
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
According to the first statistic I found [1] there are about 180000 highway vehicle fires each year in the US, and in 26% of them the item that first ignited was "flammable or combustible liquid, gas filter or piping". So that's about 45000 gasoline fires a year in the US (if you don't count ones where the fire started somewhere else in the car). You just don't hear about them because they aren't newsworthy (precisel…
Some quick googling says tesla is ~70% [1] of the EV market and there is someone who claims to track every telsa fire [2] which has counts 97 fires since 2013. Compare that to 45k ICE vehicles fires every year and it appears that EVs are significantly less likely to catch fire. I think if you live in one of the top 50 metro areas of the US and listen to local traffic news between June-August you'll probably hear abou…
That's very fair. I've been in multiple cars that have caught on fire on the road. In my experience, ICE fires typically start in the engine bay. Hence why there's literally a firewall between you and the engine. A small handheld extinguisher can put them out easily, and I've done this myself as well.
I have no experience with EV fires, or how they start... but if it's under your ass in the battery pack, and no easy way to get an extinguisher in there... then by the time you notice, the fire may already be out of control.
I think that's what the big difference is going to be. EV fires will be less common, but will be way more crazy. That's why people will notice them much more.