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We don't have a hundred biases, we have the wrong model

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71–80 of 97 posts

Re: We don't have a hundred biases, we have the wrong model

#71
"All models are wrong, some are useful"

The efficient market hypothesis ("homo economicus") model is a prime example. Of course it is wrong. It is a model.

That doesn't mean it is not useful.

Howard Marks (highly successful investor over many decades) has this to say about it

> if you ignore the efficient market hypothesis, you’re going to be very disappointed, because you’re going to find out that very few of your active investment decisions work. But if you swallow it whole, you won’t be an investor, and you’ll give up on active success. So the truth, if there is one, has to lie somewhere in between, and that’s what I believe.

https://www.oaktreecapital.com/insights/memo/conversation-at...

Re: We don't have a hundred biases, we have the wrong model

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finding the best possible choice is impossible, but selecting the choice that maximizes expectation is possible. The former would be driving a different route because you know that a specific driver would rear-end you, and is impossible because it requires knowing the future. The latter would be driving a different route because you know that there's an annoying left turn. The distinction isn't in whether your have a…

Nobody uses all available information, whoever did would probably start by collecting every millennium prize.

Not sure if you realize this is coming off a pedantic, but everybody realizes what you are getting at. It's just not useful or relevant.

Define information being available as what people are able to load up into working memory to make the decision. You can maximize with those factors easily.

Re: We don't have a hundred biases, we have the wrong model

#73
post #23

The rational actor model assumes that a person will behave optimally - using all information available to make and carry out the best decision possible for their goals. I strongly suspect that a better model is that people instead of optimizing their outcomes instead optimize the ease of decision making while still getting an acceptable course of action. Most of our biases serve to either allow us to make decisions q…

I think there cannot be a single perspective for optimal behavior. If I work I want to be efficient, the opposite is true if I want to relax. When I want to have fun or be creative rationality isn't necessarily good company.

I also don't want to take every opportunity I get, that would be pretty exhausting. I would have opportunity to save some taxes if I invest a few hours into tax law. Certainly and opportunity and pretty productive. But I just don't want to because I hate doing taxes.

Sure, these models do not apply to individuals (although this fact is often neglected). Also a model is always a simplification. Intrinsic to that is that it will by definition only ever be approximative. It neglects parts of reality, hopefully the less important ones but you cannot be sure about correctness and extend of approximation.

For example if I know a behavioral scientist that I just don't like for any reason and he suggest I should exercise more, I might go eat an extra pot of ice cream. This would render "nudging" quite ineffective or worse have the opposite than the intended effect.

I think it is more constructive to accept limitations of a model. It can help for prognosis and diagnostics. Why is it for example that people exercise less? Probably work load or distractions from entertainment or whatever reason. I think the field should concentrate on trying to get answers to such questions.

Psychology is interesting and much of the content that cannot be replicated is probably still true under certain circumstances. But for generalization these circumstances need to be known.

Re: We don't have a hundred biases, we have the wrong model

#74
>> If your body of knowledge is a list of unconnected phenomena rather than a theoretical framework, you lose the ability to filter experimental results by whether they are surprising and represent a departure from theory.

Sorry to make everything about AI and machine learning, but for a moment there, I thought this was precisely about AI and machine learning.

Re: We don't have a hundred biases, we have the wrong model

#75
Maybe we need better theory of rationality (I assume there is something like that). The author says "understanding objectives is important" - since objectives can drastically differ, so would the definition of "rationality" differ. So we might still have a "rational actor", only our assumptions about rationality might be wrong.

Re: We don't have a hundred biases, we have the wrong model

#76
post #23

The rational actor model assumes that a person will behave optimally - using all information available to make and carry out the best decision possible for their goals. I strongly suspect that a better model is that people instead of optimizing their outcomes instead optimize the ease of decision making while still getting an acceptable course of action. Most of our biases serve to either allow us to make decisions q…

The basic form of the rational actor model assumes nothing more than that the prediction errors an actor makes should be assumed to be unsystematic [unless proven otherwise] for the purpose of modelling. (And by extension, that some empirically observed group-level systematic deviations from theoretically optimal behaviour might be better explained by constraints on ability to act than on inability to anticipate)

Which is a pretty good null hypothesis, actually.

That's entirely consistent with people frequently optimising for ease of decision making, it's just not consistent with slavish adherence to a particular specified decision making function an economist has designed policy around exploiting. The canonical example in macroeconomics being that if a government announced its intention to increase inflation, it would be unreasonable to assume that people weren't rational enough to consider asking for a pay rise.

Epicycles were abandoned because we had a more parsimonious default model, not because we wanted to have a more complex idea of reality and handwaved about maybe being more multidisciplinary.

Re: We don't have a hundred biases, we have the wrong model

#77
post #57
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Far better. Because the government isn't, (or at least shouldn't be) beholden to short term interests in the same way those other classes are. Companies will happily destroy everything around them, poison and impoverish entire nations if not reined in, just to turn a quick buck. People are extremely short-term, local thinkers in general. Yes, I include myself. Most struggle with delayed gratification, let alone retir…

Replying to myself - obviously this is within limits, the government should be just that, a governor. Centralised planning does not work.

I'm not arguing for no Government. I'm arguing against Government intervention in the economy. I disagree on many points though (I have seen the Vox article before - I don't have much respect for Vox as it is very biased, so I tend to ignore it, just like The Guardian or Fox News).

"Because the government isn't, (or at least shouldn't be) beholden to short term interests in the same way those other classes are". A Government is made of people. "Shouldn't" doesn't mean "Isn't". You need to convince me that it "Isn't".

"Companies will happily destroy everything around them, poison and impoverish entire nations if not reined in, just to turn a quick buck." I disagree. What's the point for investor to make money and then die of pollution or die in a fire. Yes, there are bad apples and stupid people, but you can't design a system that prevent people to do things because there are some bad apples. Look at the big tech, they are mostly investing voluntarily to reduce fossil fuel dependency. Of course if there is a market failure that really can be solved by the Government and that would otherwise kill us all, then I'm in favor of (indirect and market based) intervention.

"People are extremely short-term, local thinkers in general." Disagree, people have different plans, some shorter term some longer term. Also why would they have short-term thinking in the market but long term thinking at the election?

"A government, under the purview of democracy, is needed to try to balance these things out and help a society actually operate" Very likely so. Although there are some ANCAP proposals I find interesting like the one form David Friedman, I'm not convinced it would work in practice. However my ideal Government doesn't balance anything (I don't think it actually can without making more harm than good). It instead define the rules and what constitute private property, but it doesn't decide how to allocate these resources. That would be left entirely to the market.

Re: We don't have a hundred biases, we have the wrong model

#78
post #77
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replying to myself - obviously this is within limits, the government should be just that, a governor. Centralised planning does not work.

I'm not arguing for no Government. I'm arguing against Government intervention in the economy. I disagree on many points though (I have seen the Vox article before - I don't have much respect for Vox as it is very biased, so I tend to ignore it, just like The Guardian or Fox News). "Because the government isn't, (or at least shouldn't be) beholden to short term interests in the same way those other classes are". A Go…

Ugh, ancap bullshit. Get out of your bubble.

> What's the point for investor to make money and then die of pollution or die in a fire.

Because then they have the money and you don't. That's all there is to it. Look at the world aroudn you and tell me how corporate greed isn't ruining it.

Actually don't tell me, your philosophy is bankrupt.

Re: We don't have a hundred biases, we have the wrong model

#79
post #58
post #23

The rational actor model assumes that a person will behave optimally - using all information available to make and carry out the best decision possible for their goals. I strongly suspect that a better model is that people instead of optimizing their outcomes instead optimize the ease of decision making while still getting an acceptable course of action. Most of our biases serve to either allow us to make decisions q…

> optimize the ease of decision making while still getting an acceptable course of action This might explain some behavior, but how does this model explain why many people choose to hurt others out of spite even if it means hurting themselves? Those choices are neither easy, nor optimal, nor ultimately acceptable as many people who do stupid things like that end up regretting it. It seems to me and most of historical…

Punishing bad behavior is critical for any social group. If people know that no matter how much they break the social contract you're not going to do anything about it, the social contract no longer exists. This goes for both future interactions with the person who made the transgression, as well as third parties who are aware of the transgression.

Now a rational actor would carefully evaluate the consequences of possible responses to come up with an appropriate option and if the cost of their feud were greater than the likely reward then they'ed simply let it go. While it leads to better outcomes, this is a slow and draining process.

On the other hand, a simple "eye for an eye" response will often lead to suboptimal results, particularly when the perceived sleight is very different from the actual transgression, but people still will be hesitant to mess with you all the same. While in our modern era of functional justice systems this approach is generally unnecessary, the overwhelming majority of our evolutionary history did not contain such a luxury.

Re: We don't have a hundred biases, we have the wrong model

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody uses all available information, whoever did would probably start by collecting every millennium prize.

Not sure if you realize this is coming off a pedantic, but everybody realizes what you are getting at. It's just not useful or relevant. Define information being available as what people are able to load up into working memory to make the decision. You can maximize with those factors easily.

I can "load up" the axioms of set theory plus the necessary definitions into working memory, but I'm still not claiming any millennium prizes. I do not think that a model of a person that is only limited by information would be anything close to a person that is limited by computational ability.
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