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Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

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Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#71

Post by knorker »

> I can't bare the endless meetings

It's an unfortunate fact that in order to get more done you'll always be more effective if you manage to steer a team the right direction than to do it yourself.

Doesn't matter if you believe in 10x engineers or not. There's just no way you can compete against a team of 100 with proper leadership (technical and/or managerial).

And unfortunately one meeting can have these impossible to measure small movements of the rudder that is more effective than you sitting and coding for a month.

That doesn't necessarily make it "fun", but it can be fulfilling.

> constant micromanagement

Ugh, that sucks. The whole industry is NOT like that.

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#72

Post by baobabKoodaa »

xnorswap wrote: post #18

There's a difference between Programming and Software Development and I think it's important to recognise that difference when looking at your career. Programming is one small aspect of software development. It's an absolutely essential part, and it's the part you probably enjoy the most. But despite being an essential core part, it's also a part which only occupies maybe 20% of your time. Some software developers de…

Hey, I have a counterpoint to one of your comments wrt attitude concerning meetings: if I sit in a Teams call with 50 other people, mic muted, camera off, listening to some person I haven't seen before talk about some business development I haven't heard of before, it's not going to matter what attitude I have. No-one will notice "what energy I bring" into that meeting. None of it matters. It's just one more day of boring corporate dystopia where nothing matters.

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#74

Post by lucideer »

canucklady wrote: post #34
badpun wrote: post #2

I think most people here can. That's why, when people have enough money to retire, they DO retire, and not continue working. Work for most people is trading time and physical and mental health for money. In our profession, we got it better than most, but the underlying principle is still the same. Also, there are definitely better and worse companies. I'm currently in the best job of my life (well paying, fully remot…

I disagree about the retirement thing - I knew a lot of multi-millionaires from a very successful IPO who kept working for 5+ years afterwards. Even fully vested they had all their friends at work, they had a lot of influence, it was like a weird little social club for mostly dudes who didn't really have other hobbies outside of work. I agree about the second half, though. My current job is just a terrible meat grind…

> I knew a lot of multi-millionaires

Stop right there.

I don't think this contradicts the statement "I think most people here can [relate]"

Yes, a million $/€/£ isn't what it once was, and being a millionaire isn't in itself an indicator of exceptional riches, but the term "multi-millionaire" still certainly implies a level of wealth that sets one apart from the average (even among ycombinator-readers).

And I would imagine you're proportionally much less likely to be a fan of the industry inversely to the measure of the safety net / impetus-to-participate-in-the-rat-race-of-9-to-5 you possess.

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#75

Post by SamWhited »

I feel this, I eventually quit and became a bicycle mechanic. Now I don't hate my life anymore, but there's a decent chance I'm going to lose my house and can't afford rent anywhere in my city anymore, so tradeoffs, I guess. I'd love a job in the industry that didn't make me feel physically ill often, but I've never found it. Something that actually treats its employees well (not "free snacks" well, but "with respect", well). I've become fairly convinced that the only way to do this is through meaningful employee ownership (not a giant public company only accountable to large share holders, but a co-op or similar) or unionization.

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#76

Post by UncleMeat »

anonymoushn wrote: post #28
xnorswap wrote: post #18

There's a difference between Programming and Software Development and I think it's important to recognise that difference when looking at your career. Programming is one small aspect of software development. It's an absolutely essential part, and it's the part you probably enjoy the most. But despite being an essential core part, it's also a part which only occupies maybe 20% of your time. Some software developers de…

If the meetings are useful, that's fine, but I have a hard time taking pride in a long series of meetings to decide the contents of a 15-page document describing the design for feature that could be like 200LOC but now must be 2000LOC and involve integration between multiple teams' services because the promo criteria says "collaboration."

Then tell people. Make it better. You can improve process in the same way that you can identify broken components of a codebase, take ownership of them, and improve them in measurable ways.

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#77

Post by cristiantincu »

Been in the software development industry for almost 19 years now. The last five years have been pretty much what you describe. Yes, I can certainly relate. I've been largely driven by passion, but passion is no longer here. And I'm bad at discipline, which should be my new driver now, I guess. :-)

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#78

Post by Melting_Harps »

mabbo wrote: post #25

When I was in university, I had a coworker at the book store who casually mentioned that he used Linux on his home computer. I asked if he was in computer science or engineering. Neither. He loved computers, loved programming, but when he took the classes and imagined the jobs, he found it revolting. So he switched majors, and software became his hobby instead. He seemed very happy with the decision.

> He seemed very happy with the decision.

I've monetized every hobby I have ever had any passion for, and despite having buyers remorse it took me until my mid 30s to realize to keep hobbies a thing to do when you are not earning a living. It's hard to envision my life not having taken those decisions and challenges, but I'm pretty sullen at the idea of just how heart-wrenching it is to have seen the inner machinations of something that brought me so much joy because this time 'I won't work a day in my Life.'

I think it's only with maturity that one realizes that you'd rather build a career on something you're curious about, but not passionate about because the latter tends to be suffocated to death when you see how 'the sausage is made' and you realize that most Lifers have simply lost any passion in that field in order to stay in it: money is/can be a motivator, but it cannot be the only driver of why you wake up because existential dread soon kicks in every time you get a respite from having to do it.

I left Startup-World/Fintech when I completed my objectives in order go back to culinary for my last tour with a path towards AI and ML when I felt 'I had enough,' so after COVID it accelerated things a bit faster but I realized that I'm just curious enough about ML to keep me engaged that if I keep learning at my own pace I think it will be a sound transition-- I'm doing my CS undegrad in AI/ML and I'll be attending a conference with Dr. Ng next month as he has been very vocal about how his views on the Industry which resonates with me and likely most of you ITT.

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#79

Post by gbro3n »

I feel this and wrote only today about treating software as a creative process. I feel that that programming is most enjoyable when it feels like art and it's inflexible processes around software development that break this. Paul Graham writes extensively about software and it's similarities to the process of painting https://garethbrown.net/2022/07/18/hackers-painters-and-prac...
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