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Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

spiegel.de

71–80 of 423 posts

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#71

Given that Germany ignored decades of warnings about this, let them take the brunt of the cuts.

There are so many people who want to see ordinary Germans suffer for decisions their government made. Do you think the pensioners who will freeze are the ones who decided on energy policy?

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#72
post #18

To get some perspective why this is such a hotly debated topic - just got my heating bill for the last year - just a small 2 person flat in a small town - most flats in Germany are heated by gas one way or another - 700€/year with 5.2ct/kWh for 2021 - current market is more like 15ct/kWh and will probably rise. With the rise in rent prices in the last years this could push quite a bit of poor / lower middle class peo…

Why are you and your friends okay with this? The increase in energy prices due to EU sanctions are making the Russian state fabulously wealthy right now. Russia has alternative customers, y'all don't have alternative suppliers.

If the EU doesn't come to their senses and embrace realpolitik, they are looking at literal deindustrialization and a plunge into mass poverty and social unrest. BMWs aren't built nor homes heated with unicorn butterfly karma.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#73

Related content "Trump: Germany 'Totally Controlled By Russia'" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LLZBVTid4I German bureaucrats laugh at Trump after he says the country could become totally dependent on Russian energy: https://twitter.com/marcusgilmer/status/1044604107997237249

I generally despise Trump, but here he looks like a visionary and the German diplomats look like morons (in hindsight, at least).

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#74
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not recommending to have a nuclear war over who gets to collect vodka taxes in some East European town. I am pointing out that these people let moral foreign policy run their entire trade block and foreign policy choices, and not a cold rational calculus of any kind. All the self-sanctions have come to nothing: they have not and will not materially affect the end result of the war. They've made me, as a citizen i…

The rational calculus here is "Russia will keep doing this as long as we let them". The time to start getting off Russian gas was 2014. The EU, and Germany in particular, let a gun be pointed at their head for far too long.

yes, like US and China, we can't stop them and it doesn't help to kill our economy for a strictly symbolic action

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#75

https://www.rolls-royce.com/innovation/small-modular-reactor... I'm on the fence about an all electric future- we simply don't have the grid capacity in most parts of the world - but the Germans and French who control the EU should have been developing SMNR years ago. They are now in an energy checkmate situation with a hostile country with an economy the size of Italy. Not clever,

France is looking into small reactors it seems

But has RR actually shipped one of these?

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#76
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not recommending to have a nuclear war over who gets to collect vodka taxes in some East European town. I am pointing out that these people let moral foreign policy run their entire trade block and foreign policy choices, and not a cold rational calculus of any kind. All the self-sanctions have come to nothing: they have not and will not materially affect the end result of the war. They've made me, as a citizen i…

The rational calculus here is "Russia will keep doing this as long as we let them". The time to start getting off Russian gas was 2014. The EU, and Germany in particular, let a gun be pointed at their head for far too long.

Yeah, so you build nuclear reactors and raise the standard of living in that case, which would be the exact opposite of what EU is doing (recommendations to reduce energy density and carrying capacity, ie. you own nothing and will be happy).

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#77

There are solutions, just unpopular and require a political class that is not fickle and weak. Solution #1. Capitulate to Putin and treat Russia as a regional power that can gobble and punish its neighbors when they stray too far. Solution #2. Forget about the climate for the next 5 years, turn on all coal, nuclear powerplants. Solution #3. Put the Euro printer in overdrive and pay whatever price needed for the littl…

> Solution #2. Forget about the climate for the next 5 years, turn on all coal, nuclear powerplants. Nuclear power is perfectly compatible with climate goals.

Yeah if anything this should be a lesson to build more clean energy, including nuclear.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#78
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a difference between the kind of gas used in power plants and the kind for residential use? If not, couldn't nuclear plants reduce the need for gas in power plants, allowing that gas to go to heating homes instead?

There is currently almost no gas used for electricity generation in Europe (much too expensive). Even under normal conditions, heating and industry consume an order of magnitude more gas than electricity generation.

EDIT: This is wrong, as the commenter notes below, this is energy, not electricity.

Citation? The number that I consistently see cited is 1/4 of all electricity in EU comes from Natural Gas [0].

[0] https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/cache/infographs/energy/bloc-2...

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#79
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a difference between the kind of gas used in power plants and the kind for residential use? If not, couldn't nuclear plants reduce the need for gas in power plants, allowing that gas to go to heating homes instead?

It could but so would accelerating solar and wind deployments. At this point those are probably more cost effective solutions. Trying to restart a reactor that youve been going through the shutdown process for about 5 years is probably going to cost more. It's super weird how many people think this restarting the nuke plants is a solution. It'll cost a lot and wont make much overall difference. (of course, neither wi…

I wasn't proposing restarting nuclear plants as a solution. I was suggesting Germany made a huge mistake shutting them down in the first place.

> (of course, neither will anything else really... there are zero short term solutions to Germany's russian gas dependence other than kowtowing).

Kowtowing isn't a solution to Germany's Russian gas dependence, it's accepting it as inevitable. It may be the only solution to Germany's gas shortages.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#80

There are solutions, just unpopular and require a political class that is not fickle and weak. Solution #1. Capitulate to Putin and treat Russia as a regional power that can gobble and punish its neighbors when they stray too far. Solution #2. Forget about the climate for the next 5 years, turn on all coal, nuclear powerplants. Solution #3. Put the Euro printer in overdrive and pay whatever price needed for the littl…

According to the EU nuclear power is green. So solution #2 would save the climate, based on that logic. Actually inflation was already there before the war, so it is mostly because of #3.

Also according to the EU:

Natural gas is now green in some circumstances. I'm not sure what to make of this.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/06/europe-natural-gas-nuclear-a...

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