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How Google got to rolling Linux releases for Desktops

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Re: How Google got to rolling Linux releases for Desktops

#71
Glad to see that they're planning on contributing more to the upstream. But considering the size and budget of Google, and the amount of free work they're getting from the Debian community, it would be utterly irresponsible not to. Not blaming the team that's doing this good work though - I'm sure they're working hard enough as it is.

Re: How Google got to rolling Linux releases for Desktops

#72

Why not ChromeOS?

Likely because these are not end-user machines but developer machines. Most Google engineers don't checkout/write/build/test/run code on their machines (they either do these tasks through a browser or SSH to another machine).

I believe gLinux can be installed on trusted machines that you connect over SSH as well as client laptops (where you can't checkout code etc).

That said many engineers/non-engineers at Google use ChromeOS on their client laptops (same with macOS).

Re: How Google got to rolling Linux releases for Desktops

#73
post #5

personally I'm a pretty big fan of opensuse tumbleweed for a rolling distribution because they ship fully tested snapshots each day rather than individual packages. If I understand the article correctly Google's Sieve is similar to the Opensuse Build Service in that regard. It seems like they went for Debian because of the proximity to Ubuntu but I wonder if they ever considered Suse, the ecosystem is pretty good.

Have to say I didn't expect much from it. I don't distro hop usually, and when I do it's Debian based distros so that I have the familiar package management tools. I also usually stick to XFCE + plank. But for the first time in over a decade I broke tradition and installed OpenSUSE Tumbleweed with KDE. The config panel you get on first login has an extremely handy feature that lets you choose a layout for KDE, and there's one that almost perfectly matches my XFCE + plank setup. Several weeks on and really I'm happy with it. Wayland, PipeWire, everything up to date. Not a single issue! In thinking about using it as my daily driver in my work laptop.

Re: How Google got to rolling Linux releases for Desktops

#74

Jesus.. here i am in my BigCorp being disallowed to dev with Linux because too much mandated corporate crapware doesn't work. I dream of the day my employer provides an in-house distro for me.

WSL2 works really well.

Unlikely to work in any corporate environment that I've witnessed.

This is why so many devs I know moved to Mac's. Not because Mac's are necessary that great, who cares about battery life when it just sits on a desk, but because it's the closest you can get to Linux in a corporate environment.

I would take native Linux on an ThinkPad as first option, but denied that I would go for Mac over Windows. I don't find WSL fixed all the other Windows problems such as lack of support for multiple desktops. They exist but the implementation is terrible.

Re: How Google got to rolling Linux releases for Desktops

#75

Glad to see that they're planning on contributing more to the upstream. But considering the size and budget of Google, and the amount of free work they're getting from the Debian community, it would be utterly irresponsible not to . Not blaming the team that's doing this good work though - I'm sure they're working hard enough as it is.

I think there's a big misunderstanding as to what exactly gLinux _IS_.

Nearly every large company I've worked at worked hard to standardize the dev environment. Ensuring the right set of dev tools (and more) is available on every machine. It's not as simple as 'apt-get install build-essential' and you're done. For example many large companies use perforce, which also has a licensing requirement. Google in particular has a large set of custom binaries, remote file systems, unified login (think krb but maybe not exactly that), unified management, etc, etc.

That is what gLinux is. This isn't something you're going to want or need. In fact it doesn't even run outside of the Google hard wired VLANs really (for setup).

There are a LOT of net benefits for much of google to being on gLinux. It means, for example, that nearly every product works on Linux - google docs, spreadsheet, meet, etc. That's a huge win. Not only that, they are on par with Windows or Mac support (thanks browser as a platform).

Re: How Google got to rolling Linux releases for Desktops

#77
post #37

The more important question is where is this magical Google-blessed rolling release Debian available to download? We've all heard rumors of this internal Google distro and what I'm reading is their intent to give back. You can use Microsoft's CBL-Mariner today. Where is Google's?

If you want to get really technical, there's not much difference between Google's gLinux and Debian testing. Notably, our security, provisioning, and tooling is installed, and that's about it. Nothing that's particularly useful outside of the corp bubble. Disc: Googler, not in CorpEng.

Not to mention many of those things don't work outside the rarified environment that is a fully managed VLAN.

Regarding "security", remember plenty of security is things like auditing, remote logs, ability of remote admins to control machines, etc, etc. It's ultimately all boring, but essential, large fleet management stuff.

Re: How Google got to rolling Linux releases for Desktops

#78

Why not ChromeOS?

They use ChromeOS as well, this article focuses on those people who want to use a mainstream Linux Distro at Google.

Pretty much everyone has a gLinux workstation or logs into a gLinux VM - they were, traditionally, the only devices that had access to the main source repository, so it's not so much about whether people want to or not.

Re: How Google got to rolling Linux releases for Desktops

#79

Why not ChromeOS?

I actually evaluated whether it was plausible to use a ChromeOS derivative as a workstation OS while I was at Google. At the time the answer was "no" for a bunch of reasons, including the following:

1) Crostini didn't integrate with the ChromeOS accessibility infrastructure, so it wasn't practical for users who required assistive technologies which meant gLinux would have to be supported anyway

2) While there is some degree of support for graphics acceleration for Crostini instances, there's no real way to provide direct access to the hardware. A bunch of people needed to do work that required more direct GPU access (either very resource intensive rendering, or GPU-offloaded ML models and the like), which meant gLinux would have to be supported anyway

3) We were in the process of moving to using hardware-backed machine identity for Beyondcorp, and Crostini had no way of providing that and tying that identity to the host identity (you don't want a situation where a guest VM appears to be trustworthy when it's running on an unpatched host)

4) This was also before the acquisition of Neverware, which meant at the time that a team would need to be built to maintain a build of ChromeOS for generic workstation hardware

This was a few years back, and I left getting on for 18 months ago, so it wouldn't surprise me if this is reappraised at some point.

Re: How Google got to rolling Linux releases for Desktops

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WSL2 works really well.

Unlikely to work in any corporate environment that I've witnessed. This is why so many devs I know moved to Mac's. Not because Mac's are necessary that great, who cares about battery life when it just sits on a desk, but because it's the closest you can get to Linux in a corporate environment. I would take native Linux on an ThinkPad as first option, but denied that I would go for Mac over Windows. I don't find WSL f…

Windows 11 natively supports multiple desktops.
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