Event-level prediction of urban crime reveals a enforcement bias in US cities • Hacker News Board

Re: Event-level prediction of urban crime reveals a enforcement bias in US cities

#71

Post by vorpalhex » Sun, Jul 03, 2022, 5:36 AM UTC

joe_the_user wrote: post #32

mbrodersen wrote: post #24

The Police seems to be in an impossible situation: if they don’t try to fight crime in a minority neighbourhood then they are “racist” (focusing on the rich neighbourhoods). If they do try to fight crime in a minority neighbourhood then they are also “racist” (for “targeting” specific races/cultures). It is especially difficult if they try to fight crime in a violent dangerous minority neighbourhood where every routi…

...if they don’t try to fight crime in a minority neighbourhood then they are “racist” (focusing on the rich neighbourhoods). If they do try to fight crime in a minority neighbourhood then they are also “racist” (for “targeting” specific races/cultures). Let me outline the counter claim. Police spend more effort on actually solving crimes in rich neighborhood (as per article) but they still need arrests in poor neigh…

Do you have any data for this counter claim?

Re: Event-level prediction of urban crime reveals a enforcement bias in US cities

#72

Post by bergenty » Sun, Jul 03, 2022, 5:45 AM UTC

ezekiel11 wrote: post #58

bergenty wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No they knew. It’s just that riots don’t happen that often so they were willing to take the risk and the opportunity cost since other Americans wouldn’t do it.

how would they have known? they were counting on soldiers to save them but were pretty much left to dry. it was only after they started shooting back at looters (who were also armed) it sank in.

Because it’s well known that cops usually take longer/don’t respond in bad neighborhoods.

Re: Event-level prediction of urban crime reveals a enforcement bias in US cities

#73

Post by s1artibartfast » Sun, Jul 03, 2022, 6:22 AM UTC

joe_the_user wrote: post #32

mbrodersen wrote: post #24

The Police seems to be in an impossible situation: if they don’t try to fight crime in a minority neighbourhood then they are “racist” (focusing on the rich neighbourhoods). If they do try to fight crime in a minority neighbourhood then they are also “racist” (for “targeting” specific races/cultures). It is especially difficult if they try to fight crime in a violent dangerous minority neighbourhood where every routi…

...if they don’t try to fight crime in a minority neighbourhood then they are “racist” (focusing on the rich neighbourhoods). If they do try to fight crime in a minority neighbourhood then they are also “racist” (for “targeting” specific races/cultures). Let me outline the counter claim. Police spend more effort on actually solving crimes in rich neighborhood (as per article) but they still need arrests in poor neigh…

This does not match with my experience in poor areas. In my experience, the bar to get in trouble with the police is higher because of the vastly greater violent crime rates. Most minor laws see zero enforcement

Re: Event-level prediction of urban crime reveals a enforcement bias in US cities

#74

Post by s1artibartfast » Sun, Jul 03, 2022, 6:25 AM UTC

scotty79 wrote: post #28

mbrodersen wrote: post #24

The Police seems to be in an impossible situation: if they don’t try to fight crime in a minority neighbourhood then they are “racist” (focusing on the rich neighbourhoods). If they do try to fight crime in a minority neighbourhood then they are also “racist” (for “targeting” specific races/cultures). It is especially difficult if they try to fight crime in a violent dangerous minority neighbourhood where every routi…

Admit only minority people into the Police force. Problem solved. If a Policeman kills minority unlawfully then it's just minority on minority crime so nobody will care.

Some of the worst police departments are majority minority with minority leadership all the way up to the mayor's office. This is obviously not a solution

Re: Event-level prediction of urban crime reveals a enforcement bias in US cities

#75

Post by cuteboy19 » Sun, Jul 03, 2022, 7:10 AM UTC

panny wrote: post #45

mbrodersen wrote: post #24

The Police seems to be in an impossible situation: if they don’t try to fight crime in a minority neighbourhood then they are “racist” (focusing on the rich neighbourhoods). If they do try to fight crime in a minority neighbourhood then they are also “racist” (for “targeting” specific races/cultures). It is especially difficult if they try to fight crime in a violent dangerous minority neighbourhood where every routi…

>Imagine being a police officer risking your life every single day. Knowing that the next person you stop might try to do his/her best to kill you. While also knowing that any mistake you make will be headline news around the world. It’s an impossible situation. Defender problem. Just like how pen testers are insufferably smug that throwing random input at your endpoint causes unexpected problems. Nevermind that buil…

but the pentesters are right and you should be thanking them for finding the xploit

Re: Event-level prediction of urban crime reveals a enforcement bias in US cities

#76

Post by mdp2021 » Sun, Jul 03, 2022, 7:29 AM UTC

zzzeek wrote: post #33

mbrodersen wrote: post #24

The Police seems to be in an impossible situation: if they don’t try to fight crime in a minority neighbourhood then they are “racist” (focusing on the rich neighbourhoods). If they do try to fight crime in a minority neighbourhood then they are also “racist” (for “targeting” specific races/cultures). It is especially difficult if they try to fight crime in a violent dangerous minority neighbourhood where every routi…

> And yet a single Police incident gone wrong will completely overshadow the reality of this. that's because when the police kill people, there are no repercussions for them, no matter how much obvious bias, incompetence, disregard for human life, and malice is apparent in their activity. police can literally murder people on a whim and 99% of the time not even be suspected of any crime much less prosecuted. The Geor…

> aribtrary murder by state actors with no accountability is worse

It is treason.

(It is abuse of the powers assigned by the State.)

Re: Event-level prediction of urban crime reveals a enforcement bias in US cities

#77

Post by feet » Sun, Jul 03, 2022, 2:20 PM UTC

inetknght wrote: post #25

mbrodersen wrote: post #24

The Police seems to be in an impossible situation: if they don’t try to fight crime in a minority neighbourhood then they are “racist” (focusing on the rich neighbourhoods). If they do try to fight crime in a minority neighbourhood then they are also “racist” (for “targeting” specific races/cultures). It is especially difficult if they try to fight crime in a violent dangerous minority neighbourhood where every routi…

The problem isn't policing and racism. Racism is the symptom. The problem is all of the other problems that lead to the increase of violent crime in the first place. Police are put into an impossible situation indeed.

Police are also part of the problem. They enforce the systemic violence enacted by shitty policy.

Which is weird, because during the pandemic a whole bunch of police were super vocal about not wanted to enforce 'unjust mask mandates' yet they'll go and terrorize minority communities with glee

They are definitely part of the problem, but you're right that it extends far beyond just them

Re: Event-level prediction of urban crime reveals a enforcement bias in US cities

#78

Post by feet » Sun, Jul 03, 2022, 2:21 PM UTC

cuteboy19 wrote: post #75

panny wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Imagine being a police officer risking your life every single day. Knowing that the next person you stop might try to do his/her best to kill you. While also knowing that any mistake you make will be headline news around the world. It’s an impossible situation. Defender problem. Just like how pen testers are insufferably smug that throwing random input at your endpoint causes unexpected problems. Nevermind that buil…

but the pentesters are right and you should be thanking them for finding the xploit

That's not how we do things in the US. Here we punish whistleblowers and tell you that what they found isn't a real problem, the problem is actually the brown people crossing the border

Don't look up

Re: Event-level prediction of urban crime reveals a enforcement bias in US cities

#79

Post by feet » Sun, Jul 03, 2022, 2:22 PM UTC

scotty79 wrote: post #28

mbrodersen wrote: post #24

The Police seems to be in an impossible situation: if they don’t try to fight crime in a minority neighbourhood then they are “racist” (focusing on the rich neighbourhoods). If they do try to fight crime in a minority neighbourhood then they are also “racist” (for “targeting” specific races/cultures). It is especially difficult if they try to fight crime in a violent dangerous minority neighbourhood where every routi…

Admit only minority people into the Police force. Problem solved. If a Policeman kills minority unlawfully then it's just minority on minority crime so nobody will care.

Found the racist

Further reading (I'm not typing all of this again):

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31926859#31955340

Re: Event-level prediction of urban crime reveals a enforcement bias in US cities

#80

Post by scarmig » Sun, Jul 03, 2022, 4:01 PM UTC

samhyde69 wrote: post #49

scarmig wrote: post #18

It seems likely that police have divested from minority communities, which I agree is a genuinely racist outcome. There are complications, though. In the 90s, leadership figures in minority communities rightly called out under policing as a serious issue that hurt their communities and needed addressing. Nowadays enforcement actions, although increasing overall quality of life and decreasing violence and premature de…

divest is synonymous with defund, no?

Divest I see as broader than defund, particularly in that it can involve an organization removing non-financial backing (i.e. officers) from some project. But, sure, close enough.