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The integrated timetable of Switzerland

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Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#71

Post by ls15 »

tauchunfall wrote: post #27
CaptainZapp wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another Swiss here. Brutally expensive? Sure, when you look at full fare tickets. Since every Swiss, who uses public transport owns a half fare card those prices are (mostly) halfed, though. When it comes to commuter travel prices become outright reasonable. The best deal, if you use the train for a regular commute intercity is the Generalabonnement[0]. ca. $4000 (6500 for first class) for a year of unrestricted trav…

German here, who traveled a lot through Switzerland. I find it even more amazing that there are more people who have a Generalabonnement than a Bahncard 100 (the German equivalent which is a bit cheaper). [1] Commuting between Fribourg and Zurich was always great, even when there were only circa five minutes to change trains in Bern. It's so efficient, I always catched my train in Bern. [1] >2019: 500'000 Exemplare d…

> I find it even more amazing that there are more people who have a Generalabonnement than a Bahncard 100 (the German equivalent which is a bit cheaper).

GA costs about 50% of a typical monthly Swiss salary.

BC100 costs about 100% of a typical monthly German salary.

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#72

Post by snovv_crash »

CaptainZapp wrote: post #36
pera wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any alternative to this? Because that's about 4 times the price of the normal monthly local bus pass in the US and the UK. Most people don't need to travel around the country, they just need to commute to their jobs.

Yes, there are. Mostly, but not necessarily, within regional transportation networks. As a for example: I pay roughly $1200 for one year of travel within the city of Zurich and the adjacent zone including the airport. This includes any mode of transportation, except taxis. A Generalabonnement makes more sense, though, commuting from, say, Zurich to Basel, which is not uncommon. Edited to add: Regional commuter passes…

If you just want Zürich city it is less, about $850/year

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#73

Post by michaelscott »

jemen wrote: post #57
michaelscott wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that Switzerland maintains this level of punctuality in addition to connecting the entire country, down to the village. That "down to the village" bit is the part that very few other public transport systems in the world have managed to get right, including those alternatives in your list. Of course, as you say this is about trusting the published statistics from the country itself. In the case of Switze…

Because they way Switzerland is structured both in terms of administration and geography I don't think that a village in Switzerland is equivalent to a village in most other countries. Presumably the canton system results in more smaller cities and large villages, and the terrain means they are in a limited number of places. The largest cities are all within 100 km of each other. While a single trip in a large countr…

I think there are pros and cons to both structures. Villages in Switzerland are well separated by geography that is physically difficult to overcome (i.e. mountains), even if the distances are not big. It's way easier to lay down a flat, long rail between 2 cities in, say, the US or Mexico than it is to do the same in Switzerland.

The structure would probably need to change for larger countries though, it's true. But you could keep a lot of it; create long distance rails between major cities with stops along these rails for smaller towns to feed into. Some European countries have this type of structure, Italy for example, though it does get very tricky for the very smallest villages

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#74

Post by jeromegv »

londons_explore wrote: post #54
mfsch wrote: post #10

What isn’t explained in the article is how this was made possible. While carefully adjusting departure times is certainly part of it, there were also a range of construction projects that shaved minutes off the travel times between major hubs to bring them just below multiples of 30 minutes (and 15 minutes in some cases). This makes it much easier to coordinate arrivals and departures and minimize transfer times. htt…

I hope that every infrastructure project tries to make a measure of the total economic gain of said project. Getting people around quicker is part of that (many models use a cost-per-hour for citizen time on the train). More efficient connections are part of travel time, and a simulation of a large number of potential journeys on some proposed infrastructure would show that. That means that when government is conside…

They do this for transit projects in Toronto. They calculate the total infrastructure + operational cost of the project over 60 years then compare it with the estimated economical benefits of having this project.

They still ended up approving many negative projects, even while there were other cheaper/better located transit projects with more benefits. The political cost of cancelling those projects was higher (ex: Mayor has campaigned on getting it approved and there was no way he would get back on that)

It's still interesting to see it and calculate it, as a matter of transparency, but its still not a guarantee of success.

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/costs-for-scarborough-subway-and-...

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#75

Post by chinathrow »

Youden wrote: post #53
Stevvo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However you look at, it's brutality expensive. It's nearly always cheaper to drive.

That depends on a lot of factors. If you live in or around Zürich for example, the median price just to rent a parking space is CHF 200/month, or CHF 2400/yr. For comparison, an adult GA is CHF 3860/yr, so paying for a parking space in Zürich alone puts you 2/3rd of the way to the cost of public transportation, even disregarding costs like insurance, the car itself, registration, vignette, fuel, vehicle maintenance,…

Where did you get the price figure for a parking space in Zürich?

It's CHF 300 per year in a blue zone where you have to find a spot whenever you feel like parking your car.

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#76

Post by CaptainZapp »

snovv_crash wrote: post #72
CaptainZapp wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, there are. Mostly, but not necessarily, within regional transportation networks. As a for example: I pay roughly $1200 for one year of travel within the city of Zurich and the adjacent zone including the airport. This includes any mode of transportation, except taxis. A Generalabonnement makes more sense, though, commuting from, say, Zurich to Basel, which is not uncommon. Edited to add: Regional commuter passes…

If you just want Zürich city it is less, about $850/year

That sounds about right.

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#77

Post by iso1631 »

gmac wrote: post #44
midasuni wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a delay repay for the first time in years a few weeks ago - someone threw themselves under a train at Milton Keynes just before my train was due to leave Euston. I don’t consider £25 each way Manchester-London to be brutally expensive to be honest - http://brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=MAN&dest=EUS&rte=371&tkt...

> I don’t consider £25 each way Manchester-London to be brutally expensive to be honest I think you're citing pretty much a best case there. I just put in the same journey on a morning next week and got £150 each way, which I suspect is still not the worst case. Before the pandemic, my wife used to pay about £5K/year for a London - Brighton season ticket (a distance of about 50 miles). Possibly the most infuriating t…

£25 each way is a walk up fare, you just need to take the slightly slower train (which is still faster than the car and about the same speed it was in the 90s), arriving in London about 1030.

Peak time commuting tickets are likewise a bargain. Brighton-London for £5,300 5 times a day 50 weeks a year at 65 miles each way is 32,500 miles, or 16p per mile. For a car doing 45mpg that will cost you £6,300 in fuel alone, let alone parking, depreciation, wear and tear, etc.

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#78

Post by iso1631 »

Zenst wrote: post #16
midasuni wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a delay repay for the first time in years a few weeks ago - someone threw themselves under a train at Milton Keynes just before my train was due to leave Euston. I don’t consider £25 each way Manchester-London to be brutally expensive to be honest - http://brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=MAN&dest=EUS&rte=371&tkt...

Shows as £46.70, which still isn't bad, though off-peak is often less painful. If you have to use the train to commute to work, then things start raking up. I live 15 miles outside London and 17 years ago was paying best part of £2k a year just to get into central london and back, today it would be the best part of £3k a year to make that same journey. Using the same tracks, (probably trains) and stations all those y…

Nobody should be commuting from Manchester to London. That's £46.70 return, so £23.35 each way, arriving in London about 1030.

Peak time london commuting is the most expensive part of the network to deliver, as it requires increased amount of capital that's mostly idle, yet peak time commuters get massive discounts compared with occasional use. Compare Reading to London. A season ticket works out to be about £22 return for 5 days a week, a normal peak time ticket is £52.10.

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#79

Post by snovv_crash »

archerx wrote: post #42
atemerev wrote: post #26

Not only this, the transportation network is intermodal-synchronized. Meaning that e.g. most buses will come to train stations at times that are convenient to take a train to somewhere, without much waiting. This is achieved by constant numerical simulations and optimizations of real transport patterns.

Has anybody told this to Morges? I would routinely get off the train in Bussigny just to watch the bus leave the bus stop as everyone is arriving. We would collectively let out a sigh of disgust. I've seen many people confront the following bus drivers about this problem, I know the drivers are not in control but some people just vent their frustrations on them anyway. I even saw a mass walk out of an MBC bus because…

MBC was consistently rushing, late and occasionally just never arrived (particularly the 701). I think this is a localized issue though, I don't see this anywhere else.

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#80

Post by prmoustache »

pera wrote: post #31
CaptainZapp wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another Swiss here. Brutally expensive? Sure, when you look at full fare tickets. Since every Swiss, who uses public transport owns a half fare card those prices are (mostly) halfed, though. When it comes to commuter travel prices become outright reasonable. The best deal, if you use the train for a regular commute intercity is the Generalabonnement[0]. ca. $4000 (6500 for first class) for a year of unrestricted trav…

Is there any alternative to this? Because that's about 4 times the price of the normal monthly local bus pass in the US and the UK. Most people don't need to travel around the country, they just need to commute to their jobs.

Yes you can only have the smaller passes. But taking the GA is really convenient. You just enter every public transport without thinking about buying a ticket. I had a general abo for years and decided against renewing it when I moved to a job 3min of biking distance from home, I missed it dearly despite owning a car.

You are drunk after a late night. Some sort of public transport will bring you home. You want to do some hiking today? You just go to the nearest train station and decide at the last minute. You want to go to that music festival/concert on the other side of the country? Take the train, have a nap, chitchat or share a meal with your friend for a few hours without the stress of traffic, looking or paying for parking a car at your destination. Train is great, it allows you to move from A to B while basically being at the pub.

You might not need to access your whole country but once you realize you can you use that opportunity and realize your country is much deeper and more interesting than you thought it was.

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