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Running systemd without systemd-journald

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Re: Running systemd without systemd-journald

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its never a good systemd-networkd default to be killing daemon whenever a netdev goes “cricket”.

It's not a networkd default. Networkd doesn't kill or even care about other services. The setting exists on the service's unit side. You have to explicitly specify how you want to depend on networking.

Try it. Pull the Ethernet cable.

Re: Running systemd without systemd-journald

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a networkd default. Networkd doesn't kill or even care about other services. The setting exists on the service's unit side. You have to explicitly specify how you want to depend on networking.

Try it. Pull the Ethernet cable.

I do that every day moving between WiFi and plugged in Ethernet. It seems you're misunderstanding what exactly is killing processes in your case. Try to collect the logs and maybe ask on serverfault. I promise networkd is not killing your processes and if you don't have strict dependencies in your unit file, systemd is unlikely to do that either.

Re: Running systemd without systemd-journald

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a networkd default. Networkd doesn't kill or even care about other services. The setting exists on the service's unit side. You have to explicitly specify how you want to depend on networking.

Try it. Pull the Ethernet cable.

it is a good thing you have no states to care for.

Re: Running systemd without systemd-journald

#74

systemd is incredibly useful and powerful. If you are a developer on Linux then you really owe it to yourself to learn as much as you can about systemd. If you really understand systemd then you'll find yourself architecting your software around its capabilities. systemd, if you understand it, can mean you can completely avoid large chunks of development you might otherwise have assumed you need to do. socket activat…

I don't hate systemd, it simply makes me upset from time to time. If you're a developer, I'd suggest to look around and try writing portable software. Investing your precious time in systemd is pointless IMHO unless you're a systemd developer. It's alike windows: if you a developer on windows learn its incredibly powerful service subsystem... If people made systemd they definitely needed it but I gave it a try and became convinced I don't need it. So why pushing it to me in my favorite distro without any alternative? To force me stop using that distro? To force me to look around and choose another one? Is that the ultimate goal of higher forces? Well, I have to agree, that's not bad, but this distracts me from more important things.

Re: Running systemd without systemd-journald

#75
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He doesn't even know how to read man pages (journald.conf(5) describes the setup he is looking for), and he doesn't know how memory usage on Linux works (shared /mmap()ed memory is counted for each process). Do you really think his issues go away when he switches to Devuan? He'll probably just yell at different clouds Other than that, Devuan is a solid choice for people who want to get rid of systemd. It comes with t…

The systemd man pages are a book. And, just for avoidance of doubt, that's not a good thing. I am never surprised when someone can't find out how to configure systemd to do what they want. It's just too enterprise grade.

journald.conf(5) is ~2500 words and ~230 lines on a terminal 130 chars wide. Not exactly a book. systemd-journald(8) is ~220 lines and systemd(1) is ~750 lines. Big? yes. But nothing compared to some other man-pages (ever tried `man gcc` or `man bash`?)

People complain about how bad or non-existing Linux's man-pages are compared to the BSDs, and then systemd comes along with a really extensive and well-written set of manpages and people complain that it's too much

Can't make everyone happy I guess...

Re: Running systemd without systemd-journald

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a networkd default. Networkd doesn't kill or even care about other services. The setting exists on the service's unit side. You have to explicitly specify how you want to depend on networking.

Try it. Pull the Ethernet cable.

An ethernet interface is not a netdev. Netdevs are always virtual interfaces.

Re: Running systemd without systemd-journald

#78
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone pointed out elsewhere in the thread, so can systemd, your service did what it was configured to do. If you want the service to stay up when netdev goes down, then don't tell systemd that netdev is a hard requirement for your service.

Its never a good systemd-networkd default to be killing daemon whenever a netdev goes “ cricket ”.

But that's just it, to say this just demonstrates you don't understand the systemd service model.

There is no "system default" in the loop here at all. The service told systemd that it cannot operate without netdev, and systemd behaved accordingly. If the config was written more appropriately, it would have behaved accordingly. The "default" is what you had written in the unit file.

Re: Running systemd without systemd-journald

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You can run quite a lot in 512MB of RAM if you use the right languages to write code in. I recently delivered a production-ready embedded system running Armbian with 512megs RAM, and indeed disabled systemd-journald for our uses, also .. but even with it enabled, our Lua-based app was (science/data analysis on sensor network) running in the best environment it has ever run, so I can confirm: 512MB is enough for a lo…

Windows 95 ran an entire OS with decent UI in 8 MB of RAM. One really has to wonder, where is all the RAM going these days? I think the knowledge of doing anything with only 8 MB of RAM has gone away, we don't know how to do it anymore.

A huge amount of it is going to graphics. A 4K screen is ~31 MB just for the framebuffer. In comparison, 640x480x16 colors is 150K of memory.

Windows 95 also didn't do things the modern way. It didn't keep an image of every application's windows in RAM. It kept track of what covered up what, and then asked applications to redraw themselves when needed.

Another huge amount is going to features like internationalization. Unicode is a beast that takes a good amount of code to implement, and Arial Unicode is a ~20 MB TTF file.

Modern luxuries like being able to tweet in Japanese are quite expensive.

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