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Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

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Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#71

Post by bestcoder69 »

71a54xd wrote: post #17

Big no thanks to this. If you hate where you work this much, improve yourself and work somewhere else. Replacing at-will with "just cause", progressive disciplining, with criteria for performance improvement plans. If you're three years into a career in tech (technical or not) and you haven't figured out that being PIP'd or indirectly told you're fucking up - making this language "nicer" isn't going to help anyone. A…

Why is "nicer" in quotes? Who are you quoting, or even paraphrasing?

Objective criteria for PIPs has nothing to do with niceness. Are you aware that this is a standard part of union contracts in general... like one of the first things usually negotiated?

> Adults don't give feedback in a transparent way and this is because they don't want to look discriminatory. Modern employment and HR policies have done great things, but they've made the waters for this kind of communication even more opaque and pushed incentives that way as well.

If I'm understanding your comment correctly, you're against opaque communications? Then, establishing these criteria in a contract is as transparent as you can get.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#72

Post by adam_arthur »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #70
adam_arthur wrote: post #53

Definitely wouldn't want to be part of a union. I represent myself, thanks. Smaller and wide set of unions in an industry can be effective, but industry wide unions are effectively a monopoly on labor supply and bad for society. Look no further than the MTA in NYC. Terrible cost overruns and bad governance of the subway system, for what? So employees can clock extra hours and get egregiously overpaid? No thanks. Comp…

> Competition applies to labor too, by the way Yes, which is why unions are great. Corporations bargain collectively by default; each is a large unit, with a lot of resources, composed of many people. Unions allow individuals to bargain collectively, to match corporations in terms of leverage, because few individuals are valuable enough to even come close.

A union tends to be a monopoly on labor supply in most cases. Not a competitive labor market.

Bargaining collectively = monopoly. They can raise wages up to the level of marginal profit of the employing company.

Just the same as a company that's a monopoly could raise prices up to marginal value of the good to the customer.

If the company can bypass the union to hire others, then it's not a monopoly. But if the union is influential enough this may not be possible.

Distorted wages for labor is not good for broader society, only those being paid beyond their individual market power. Raises cost of goods and lowers quality for the rest

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#73

Post by slillibri »

giantg2 wrote: post #58
adam_arthur wrote: post #53

Definitely wouldn't want to be part of a union. I represent myself, thanks. Smaller and wide set of unions in an industry can be effective, but industry wide unions are effectively a monopoly on labor supply and bad for society. Look no further than the MTA in NYC. Terrible cost overruns and bad governance of the subway system, for what? So employees can clock extra hours and get egregiously overpaid? No thanks. Comp…

Have you worked at a company where you were treated unfairly, were lied to, etc? How'd that work out for you?

I left because the UFCW wasn’t representing me. People think that unions are simply fair by default but some are really an Animal Farm where all animals are equal, just some are more equal than others.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#74

Post by busterarm »

gnicholas wrote: post #67
busterarm wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also a large chunk of the employees who didn't want to unionize (25-35% of their peak headcount) left the company over some of the tactics employed in the contested fight over unionizing the company.

Can you link to details about this?

Link? No.

I'm personally in tight with a whole bunch of (ex-)Kickstarter people from rank and file to leadership.

Glad to be friends with people but happy they're not my coworkers.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#75

Post by TulliusCicero »

71a54xd wrote: post #17

Big no thanks to this. If you hate where you work this much, improve yourself and work somewhere else. Replacing at-will with "just cause", progressive disciplining, with criteria for performance improvement plans. If you're three years into a career in tech (technical or not) and you haven't figured out that being PIP'd or indirectly told you're fucking up - making this language "nicer" isn't going to help anyone. A…

Data shows that people in unionized workplaces generally get higher pay than non-union.

Perhaps it might be different in tech, where software engineers are usually already very well paid. Hard to say.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#76

Post by ghaff »

syspec wrote: post #4

How profitable is kick starter? I've not kept up, but it's certainly not discussed much these days According to Wikipedia: Net income: $1.3 million after tax (2019)[1]: 1

My sense is that in addition to a fair number of people having experienced a failed or at least disappointing kickstarter, it was probably something of a fad for a lot of people.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#77

Post by chickenpotpie »

bdcravens wrote: post #9
syspec wrote: post #4

How profitable is kick starter? I've not kept up, but it's certainly not discussed much these days According to Wikipedia: Net income: $1.3 million after tax (2019)[1]: 1

That's not much money at all.

Well theyre a public benefit corporation so it shouldn't be big right? Profit is supposed to be a nice side effect of what they're doing, not their main goal. If they were raking in the dough I would be asking how much they really cared about helping people.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#78

Post by bestcoder69 »

71a54xd wrote: post #52
arrrg wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does organizing mean you hate your workplace? Organizing means you want more power, more control. Also, there are many dimensions to liking or disliking your workplace. You may love the product your working on. You may really like your colleagues. You may also love the office environment. However, you may dislike the amount of vacation days, the lack of ability to work part time or the lack of paternal leave. Wor…

Part of being an Adult TM is separating emotions from work. Admittedly, I was able to work on some very cool shit at Amazon - however the job made me hate my life. Ergo - adult logical cycles were spent, decided to get a new job after leetcoding for a bit. The people who aren't skilled enough to get new jobs or improve themselves (also holds true in any industry) will always be some degree of fucked. I admit, some un…

> not willing to improve or make the bar of performance set by the industry isn't good for anyone involved

You're complaining about the establishment, in black-and-white, of such a bar. A bar that will be enforceable via the contract terms.

We don't know the terms, so we don't know whether the bar will be lower or higher than the unwritten one that management decides through opaque processes / on a whim.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#79

Post by dontreact »

adam_arthur wrote: post #72
TulliusCicero wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Competition applies to labor too, by the way Yes, which is why unions are great. Corporations bargain collectively by default; each is a large unit, with a lot of resources, composed of many people. Unions allow individuals to bargain collectively, to match corporations in terms of leverage, because few individuals are valuable enough to even come close.

A union tends to be a monopoly on labor supply in most cases. Not a competitive labor market. Bargaining collectively = monopoly. They can raise wages up to the level of marginal profit of the employing company. Just the same as a company that's a monopoly could raise prices up to marginal value of the good to the customer. If the company can bypass the union to hire others, then it's not a monopoly. But if the union…

Seems like there is a wide gap between a single company organizing a union for their employers and a monopoly on the labor supply. I would be more convinced by your point if this wasn't one of the first tech unions (according to headline).

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#80

Post by busterarm »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #70
adam_arthur wrote: post #53

Definitely wouldn't want to be part of a union. I represent myself, thanks. Smaller and wide set of unions in an industry can be effective, but industry wide unions are effectively a monopoly on labor supply and bad for society. Look no further than the MTA in NYC. Terrible cost overruns and bad governance of the subway system, for what? So employees can clock extra hours and get egregiously overpaid? No thanks. Comp…

> Competition applies to labor too, by the way Yes, which is why unions are great. Corporations bargain collectively by default; each is a large unit, with a lot of resources, composed of many people. Unions allow individuals to bargain collectively, to match corporations in terms of leverage, because few individuals are valuable enough to even come close.

> Corporations bargain collectively by default;

Only with unskilled labor.

My profession is skilled and the skillset is in demand and hard to find. I bargain for myself, thanks.

I have repeatedly and at length discussed on HN about my 3 separate union membership experiences and how I will never again repeat them.

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