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California Sends Democrats and the Nation a Message on Crime

nytimes.com

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Re: California Sends Democrats and the Nation a Message on Crime

#71

Post by MSM »

Auracle wrote: post #33
dathinab wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but the left didn't shift left in a relevant degree, they are more right then most center parties in the EU. Its right which shifted so far right that it might seem the left shifted away. A lot of things coming from the republican party, of bring tolerated by the republican party on recent years are uncanily similar to how Hitler proceeded before he started mass murdering (like in the rethoric of speach and willingne…

> but the left didn't shift left in a relevant degree, they are more right then most center parties in the EU. This is said a lot online, but I'd like some concrete examples. Our abortion laws are (for now) more lax than almost all European countries, and the US left still wants more. Our tax system is more progressive than many European countries, but our rich still need to pay their "fair share." The left in the US…

>This is said a lot online, but I'd like some concrete examples.

I think that really depends on which policies you're considering to determine how liberal or conservative a country is.

If you're looking at things like Universal Healthcare, Reproductive Rights (which you mentioned, interestingly- but skirted over the fact that they are likely being rolled back to being illegal at any stage past fertilization in many states- much more conservative than other countries), College tuition, universal basic income or workers rights, the US is objectively conservative.

Re: California Sends Democrats and the Nation a Message on Crime

#72

Post by askin4it »

ModernMech wrote: post #45
rossdavidh wrote: post #37

I think Democrats at the national level underestimate how much inner-city Democratic mayors, city councils, school boards, and district attorneys determine their image as a party. If suburban swing voters, when commuting into the city center to work, shop, go to a show, etc. see homeless encampments and vacant storefronts, it's going to hit the Democrats' image as a party that can run things. Republicans in city gove…

Do Republican run jurisdictions not have a problem with homelessness, or is it just less visible? Are they shifting their homeless burden to places like cities with more programs and support for homelessness? Because I've never actually heard a Republican plan for dealing with homelessness that doesn't involve criminalizing it and sweeping it under the rug where no one can see it.

If only Republicans would use their nearly infinite influence to do something we can all get behind

Re: California Sends Democrats and the Nation a Message on Crime

#73

Post by inglor_cz »

ahoy wrote: post #50
avalys wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statistics are not reality. Crime stats fell because the DA was so tolerant of crime, people stopped bothering to report anything but the most serious ones.

So in this land of topsy turvy logic, high crime stats is a good thing, because that means they're being reported?

No, the real (not topsy-turvy) logic behind GPs statement is "garbage in, garbage out", or "you can't trust a statistics unless you know how reliable the inputs are".

Re: California Sends Democrats and the Nation a Message on Crime

#74

Post by welterde »

Siddarth1977 wrote: post #66
pmoriarty wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the left has gone so far left that everyone looks like they are far right comparatively." When people say stuff like this I wonder what planet they're from. It's not like the US even has a viable Socialist party, never mind a Marxist or Communist one. I've never heard a Democrat call for the abolishment of private property or a revolution of the proletariat. In America, dreams of that sort died with end of the 60's…

So hurray, people learned from the horrors of the 20th century that socialism inevitably leads to rampant corruption, suffering and genocide? Socialism caused 100 deaths for every death the Nazis caused, I don't understand how we don't see someone advocating for it as equally appalling to someone making pro-Nazi statements. Whether you look at the Soviet Union, China, North Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Yugoslavia, Venez…

Good start mixing together communism with socialism (which can nicely coexist with capitalism).

And then let me add a nice data point that won't fit your nice narrative: Sweden. While not quite as socialist nowadays compared to maybe in the sixties, but it is still quite a lot more socialist than the US and is actually a pretty decent country to live and work in.

Re: California Sends Democrats and the Nation a Message on Crime

#75

Post by caycep »

ModernMech wrote: post #45
rossdavidh wrote: post #37

I think Democrats at the national level underestimate how much inner-city Democratic mayors, city councils, school boards, and district attorneys determine their image as a party. If suburban swing voters, when commuting into the city center to work, shop, go to a show, etc. see homeless encampments and vacant storefronts, it's going to hit the Democrats' image as a party that can run things. Republicans in city gove…

Do Republican run jurisdictions not have a problem with homelessness, or is it just less visible? Are they shifting their homeless burden to places like cities with more programs and support for homelessness? Because I've never actually heard a Republican plan for dealing with homelessness that doesn't involve criminalizing it and sweeping it under the rug where no one can see it.

well..rumors of 1 way bus tickets to LA...

Small town police departments are notorious for running "undesirables" out of their town...redlining and zoning keeping certain people from buying real estate...things like that.

Re: California Sends Democrats and the Nation a Message on Crime

#76

Post by zozbot234 »

ModernMech wrote: post #45
rossdavidh wrote: post #37

I think Democrats at the national level underestimate how much inner-city Democratic mayors, city councils, school boards, and district attorneys determine their image as a party. If suburban swing voters, when commuting into the city center to work, shop, go to a show, etc. see homeless encampments and vacant storefronts, it's going to hit the Democrats' image as a party that can run things. Republicans in city gove…

Do Republican run jurisdictions not have a problem with homelessness, or is it just less visible? Are they shifting their homeless burden to places like cities with more programs and support for homelessness? Because I've never actually heard a Republican plan for dealing with homelessness that doesn't involve criminalizing it and sweeping it under the rug where no one can see it.

Isn't Donald Trump a Republican, and a real estate developer? He's the kind of guy who can "deal with homeless" in a very real way, by building stuff - and make a profit while doing it. Win-win!

Re: California Sends Democrats and the Nation a Message on Crime

#77

Post by bergenty »

ModernMech wrote: post #45
rossdavidh wrote: post #37

I think Democrats at the national level underestimate how much inner-city Democratic mayors, city councils, school boards, and district attorneys determine their image as a party. If suburban swing voters, when commuting into the city center to work, shop, go to a show, etc. see homeless encampments and vacant storefronts, it's going to hit the Democrats' image as a party that can run things. Republicans in city gove…

Do Republican run jurisdictions not have a problem with homelessness, or is it just less visible? Are they shifting their homeless burden to places like cities with more programs and support for homelessness? Because I've never actually heard a Republican plan for dealing with homelessness that doesn't involve criminalizing it and sweeping it under the rug where no one can see it.

No post body was provided.

Re: California Sends Democrats and the Nation a Message on Crime

#78

Post by zozbot234 »

basisword wrote: post #12
ssully wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way does this give you hope that the right is moving more center?

It gives me hope that the left is. If the left shifts more central and becomes more palatable to centre right people than the far right, then the right also needs to shift.

Hotelling equilibrium for the win!

Re: California Sends Democrats and the Nation a Message on Crime

#79

Post by AdrianB1 »

dathinab wrote: post #39
AdrianB1 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is toleration of fascism? Most people I talked to don't even know what fascism is, but they use the term very liberally. Do you have national-socialists in California?

facism is far-right authoritarian ultra-nationalism national-socialist are one movement which is fascist, they are by far not the only one. (Nazis are fascist with socialist paint coat). The US never had (internally) a problem with nazis, I think. But it does have a problem with white supremacist. It also does have a problem with religious extremist, most times Christian based. Both of this groups have quite a bit of…

Explain Italian fascism, the very original. Their big boss (not named) was a socialist. Nazis were socialists and current Germany is socialist (not in name, but in behavior). I am not disputing the extreme part, just the right versus left, nazis were never classical liberals, nor religious.

Re: California Sends Democrats and the Nation a Message on Crime

#80

Post by joshuamorton »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #38
beebmam wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there evidence for this claim?

It's not so much "as a result of the DA's policies" in particular (although I don't doubt this contributes), but all over the country discretionary policing has fallen as a result of pressure from anti-policing activists on politicians and police departments. The result is that crime overall rises, but "lesser" crimes which are more likely to fall under the rubric of "discretionary" appear to fall because the police…

In SF, rapes and robberies are both down in 2021/2022 compared to 2018. Murder and shootings are comparable with 2018. Car thefts are up. All of which completely goes against this narrative you've described.

The rising crime narrative is entirely an artifact of the pandemic causing historically low crim because for like 8 months no one did anything.

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