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Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

electronicsweekly.com

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Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternative is that they take $5.5B from France and you lose the jobs. Strategically, you want the semi jobs to seed local expertise.

You can invest 5.5 billion to create local companies, instead of subsidizing an American one.

5.5 billion will barely let you build a fab, if even that.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#72

It's too late for Intel. x86 doesn't have a future, ARM64 SoC architectures like Apple's M1 (TSMC) are the future of computing. Just as fast (and often faster in many benchmarks) with only 20-25% the power consumption and heat. Even Microsoft is preparing for the shift to ARM, at Build 2⁰22 they announced project Voltera, an ARM Windows 11 PC loaded with Visual Studio 2022 and .NET 7 all for ARM to give devs a head s…

And the desktop will die as well. Even the fans of x86 say that it sucks but it still remains the main target for serious software.

Microsoft first needs to recapture their developers. They still have those that target their platform with Visual C++.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#73
post #37

Once again EU taxpayer money bankrolling US tech dominance. When will we ever learn to build up our domestic tech industry? And before the chip hipsters crawl all over my back to prove we ackshually have a powerful domestic semi industry, please name me another EU company, other than ASML (a company 90% of people here never heard of before the chip shortage), that has the same margins, dominance and ability to shape…

Does it really matter which country is the headquarters for the corporate owner? It's still a German plant hiring Germans and subject to German laws. The rule of law exists in both Germany and the US. German citizens can invest in Intel. And, in the event of a US/German war, that plant is and will remain German, not American. I think there's an excellent case for distinguishing that from companies from China, where n…

The difference is that patents for inventions made for Intel by Intel employees go to the US, whether or not that employee is an US person. Those inventions, if made by Germans, could instead help the German - or European - tech sector. That's kind of brain drain without actually leaving your country and sustainably hurts European competitiveness.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a very bad policy. We should instead invest in local companies, not a American monopoly like Intel. The origin of the company is irrelevant if they respect basic norms. How exactly is "intel" a monopoly when Advanced Micro Devices Inc. is also American?

> The origin of the company is irrelevant if they respect basic norms. This is not correct. American govenment has a habit of using American companies to push foreign policy objectives.

That hardly matters as American and EU foreign policy are almost completely aligned.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#75
post #5

Honestly, this is good policy. We can't have our complete global supply chain held over our heads when China goes and does something crazy inevitably.

This is a very bad policy. We should instead invest in local companies, not a American monopoly like Intel.

Having an established player that trains and employs workers creates a pool of experienced workers in the area. Those are exactly the kinds of people to get a local competitor started.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#76
post #16
post #2

Investing in local chip fabs is long overdue. These are incredibly important for geopolitical stability and should be distributed world-wide. We've centralized too many fabs in too few places in the search for low cost.

This will not do much with Taiwan being a single source for semiconductor manufacturing supplies. Much of critical blockers for chemicals, consumables, materials will still be in Taiwan just because the semi industry is that huge there. All 300mm fabs working outside of Taiwan are just few shipments of consumables away from stalling all the time. When Russia attacks Ukraine, the 3rd world is fucked. When China attack…

Your argument sounds like one for local investment in fabs. The point is that you develop industry (with subsidies) and the ancillary industries follow and then you (and the rest of the world) are not dependent on a single source.

Of course it's not enough to just pay Intel to open a fab you have to compete successfully with places like Taiwan and have a growing industry, otherwise that won't happen. That's the main risk here.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#77

Once again EU taxpayer money bankrolling US tech dominance. When will we ever learn to build up our domestic tech industry? And before the chip hipsters crawl all over my back to prove we ackshually have a powerful domestic semi industry, please name me another EU company, other than ASML (a company 90% of people here never heard of before the chip shortage), that has the same margins, dominance and ability to shape…

there was a strong chip industry in saxony decades ago, but they became way too expensive when china came. they are slowly starting to built back there, but progress is slow.

Bosch and Infinion have the fabs there

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#78

Why can't everyone get a help from the German government to start a business? I want to grow cucumbers, so it would be nice for Germany to pay to help me start a cucumber growing business.

I mean germany/the EU does pay subsidies to (cucumber)-farmers [0], there is literally billions each year flowing into keeping farmers somewhat afloat.

[0]https://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/2013-11/agrarreform-landwirts...

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#79
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to create an Intel competitor from scratch that will be way, way more than 5.5 billions and will take a ridiculous amount of time.

You don't need to create an Intel competitor from scratch. For example the same money can be better invested in Infineon, ASML, Bosch or a number of local companies that work on chips. Or it could be put into RISC-V work.

Investing in those (other than ASML) just means the money will go to Taiwan/China. It's no more likely to stay in the EU.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#80

Once again EU taxpayer money bankrolling US tech dominance. When will we ever learn to build up our domestic tech industry? And before the chip hipsters crawl all over my back to prove we ackshually have a powerful domestic semi industry, please name me another EU company, other than ASML (a company 90% of people here never heard of before the chip shortage), that has the same margins, dominance and ability to shape…

there was a strong chip industry in saxony decades ago, but they became way too expensive when china came. they are slowly starting to built back there, but progress is slow. Bosch and Infinion have the fabs there

sorry, misspelled infineon
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