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We're moving to a four-day work week at Beacon

beaconcrm.org

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Re: We're moving to a four-day work week at Beacon

#71
post #66

In quite a few countries the 32 hour workweek is already very normal, it creates a bit of extra scheduling work but nothing you can't handle in a larger organization. For smaller companies this is a bigger problem because they don't usually have the headcount to fill the resulting gaps and things tend to rely more on personal relationships.

It's not common to be paid 100% (aka for 40 hrs), though.

But you won't be paid 100% for 40 hours, you will be paid 100% for 32 hours. And people that work 40 hours should get more than those that work 32 hours.

By the way, it is common to be paid far less for 40 hours than you should receive as well, and plenty of people work unpaid overtime who would be happy just to work the 40 hours they get paid for.

Salary negotiations are always tricky, especially if you don't know your true market value. Given the difference between compensation at different companies one way you could attack this problem is to find a company that will match your current salary but at a reduced number of hours. Employees have the same problem that companies have: it is hard to charge by value if you don't know your value.

As a gardener my work is worth less than as a computer programmer than as a financial advisor. Because each of those domains values time entirely differently, and because there are different levels of competition.

If you can show your boss that if you work less that your productivity will likely remain the same or that it will go up they will probably wonder why they've been paying you for all that extra time in the past... so instead I would just argue to try moving to a different company at a better salary for the same amount of work or for the same salary with less work.

Re: We're moving to a four-day work week at Beacon

#72

I still don’t understand the 100% as productive in 80% of the time. The math doesn’t check out there unless the expectation is people are working 10 hr days Mon-Thurs. Even in that scenario, not everyone has the stamina to execute at that pace and it also makes it hard to recruit anyone with a kid who needs to navigate school dropoffs/pickups etc.

Take the counter direction. Imagine there was a push to extend the current normal to a schedule of 6 days of 8 hours each. Would you expect the typical office worker’s weekly production to soar by 20%? I would not.

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Re: We're moving to a four-day work week at Beacon

#73

I still don’t understand the 100% as productive in 80% of the time. The math doesn’t check out there unless the expectation is people are working 10 hr days Mon-Thurs. Even in that scenario, not everyone has the stamina to execute at that pace and it also makes it hard to recruit anyone with a kid who needs to navigate school dropoffs/pickups etc.

> also makes it hard to recruit anyone with a kid who needs to navigate school dropoffs/pickups etc.

But this is a pilot in a country where over 40% of kids go home and get to school by themselves starting at age 5 [1]. Not to mention we are talking about a continent where many children are independent in terms of mobility to school [2]. Denmark, Spain, Poland, Italy, Czechia, Netherlands, Germany, Switzerland, Finland, Great Britain, Norway, and the list goes on.

[1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22570898

[2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7731133/

Re: We're moving to a four-day work week at Beacon

#74
post #49
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually WANT to go to the office, especially when it's nice out. My body is craving the walking and the activity, and the positive stress of being in a different environment is actually helping my mood significantly. I've become puffy, lazy, and slow. But not 5 days a week, no.

I've never understood this. If you work from home you can also just... go walking outside? In fact you could even go walking for longer, since nobody is checking for your presence and you haven't wasted time commuting. I'd rather walk to the lake and go for a swim during the afternoon, than walk to a train to walk to an office.

My personal observation is that most pro office folks are seeking to substitute gaps in their personal lives with onsite work. A drain on their coworkers to be frank. Lack of friends, proper housing, lack of exercise you name it. A tiring hindrance on those whom understand that most of these issues are caused by being farmed in offices 8 hours a day and clustered in crowded, poorly planned cities. Of course there are valid practical reasons as well for onsite work.

But if your excuses for wanting to drag people back into offices are that you cant walk on your own, dont have friends, cant play politics, cant hold remote conferences or online chats, then i am sorry but you are on your own. Too many have been conditioned to think that you need to sit in a building and slave away for a praise and a rushed holiday every now and then.

Re: We're moving to a four-day work week at Beacon

#75

This is part of a wider scheme in the UK whereby 60 firms and 3000 employees are piloting 4 day weeks. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/apr/04/thousands-o... From the article: Employees from a wide range of businesses and charities are expected to take part in the scheme, which will run initially from June to December, including the Royal Society of Biology, the London-based brewing company Pressure Drop, a…

"Which country and city governments have a four-day work week?": https://buildremote.co/four-day-week/4-day-work-week-countri...

I am surprised the lack of mention of Denmark, Sweden or the Netherlands. Most business persons I contact, normally only work 4 days a week.

Re: We're moving to a four-day work week at Beacon

#76
post #69

I wish them luck. I understand their need to have folks in the office, and this is one way to make that more attractive. But it is only one factor. Good management, strong teams, and a whole lot of "soft" stuff is even more important than beanbag chairs and foozball tables. The "good management" part is where most companies go pear-shaped. I wouldn't want to go to Buckingham Palace every day, if I hated the people I…

Wow, that comic really makes me question how much of todays complaning about work and life struggles has been a multi decade persistent thing - not just hardships facing this particular generation. (As someone who was 5 in 1996 and didn't see this first hand.)

I think work is just like everything else in this regard. Providing you have standard white collar job, as things continue to improve and get better, we just find new things to complain about. e.g. parent poster complaining about 'business casual' when it wasn't that long ago business casual was a nice step down from having to wear a suit. The workplace continuously adjusts but so do our expectations.

Re: We're moving to a four-day work week at Beacon

#77
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not common to be paid 100% (aka for 40 hrs), though.

But you won't be paid 100% for 40 hours, you will be paid 100% for 32 hours. And people that work 40 hours should get more than those that work 32 hours. By the way, it is common to be paid far less for 40 hours than you should receive as well, and plenty of people work unpaid overtime who would be happy just to work the 40 hours they get paid for. Salary negotiations are always tricky, especially if you don't know y…

> And people that work 40 hours should get more than those that work 32 hours.

Someone who’s 25% less efficient at their job should get paid the same as someone else who’s more efficient?

Re: We're moving to a four-day work week at Beacon

#78

I wish them luck. I understand their need to have folks in the office, and this is one way to make that more attractive. But it is only one factor. Good management, strong teams, and a whole lot of "soft" stuff is even more important than beanbag chairs and foozball tables. The "good management" part is where most companies go pear-shaped. I wouldn't want to go to Buckingham Palace every day, if I hated the people I…

[deleted]

Re: We're moving to a four-day work week at Beacon

#79
post #69

I wish them luck. I understand their need to have folks in the office, and this is one way to make that more attractive. But it is only one factor. Good management, strong teams, and a whole lot of "soft" stuff is even more important than beanbag chairs and foozball tables. The "good management" part is where most companies go pear-shaped. I wouldn't want to go to Buckingham Palace every day, if I hated the people I…

Wow, that comic really makes me question how much of todays complaning about work and life struggles has been a multi decade persistent thing - not just hardships facing this particular generation. (As someone who was 5 in 1996 and didn't see this first hand.)

Dilbert had his own desk, with his own stuff, he had a modicum of privacy from his colleagues

The cube farm was hated at the time, but things only ever get worse if you work in an office.

Re: We're moving to a four-day work week at Beacon

#80
post #4

If you were explaining the world to an alien, it would be hard to justify the lack of diversity in working arrangements. I applaud any such non standard option in the labor market - may your office be full of good fits!

People in a company often collaborate so having them work at the same place/time is useful. Companies often collaborate or use each others services so having all companies and all people work at the time is useful. Parents need their kids taken care of while they work, so school hours mirror (to an extent) working hours and vice versa. All very explainable I think.
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