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1k True Fans? Try 100 (2020)

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Re: 1k True Fans? Try 100 (2020)

#71

I work for a company that's very much like Patreon for podcasters (Supercast). The people who will pay $1K a year to support a creator absolutely exist, but they are a small subset of the people who will pay $100 / year, which is itself a very small subset of the people who will listen to your podcast. Some rough numbers: - A podcast with an engaged fan base can usually get about 5% of their listeners to support them…

Podcast pricing is in it’s wildly crazy phase.

As an example, Sam Harris is charging $15 / month. Good for him that he’s able to pull it off, but man, that’s more than most streaming services.

Your supercast is charging $0.59 / month per sub going through your platform on top of stripe fees. So if you had a niche but interesting podcast you can’t just charge $1.00 / month and generate any revenue. These fees are a massive friction. Just the Stripe fees without additional markup is a lot of friction on small transactions.

Re: 1k True Fans? Try 100 (2020)

#72

Yeah, in an ideal world content creators could make an entire salary off of donations and offering simple perks and exclusive access. But actually this is a terrible career advice and relatively few people actually end up making anywhere close to $100k on Twitch or Patreon. For each example the author mentions there are 100s if not 1,000s more who are wasting their time. We just aren’t a society where most people don…

Cum Town makes close to 100k per month on Patreon. Proof that you can make a lot of money by just fucking around.

Well someone can ... "you" probably can't ;)

Re: 1k True Fans? Try 100 (2020)

#74
post #46

Immanuel Kant once formulated the categorical imperative … something is moral if it can work universally and be sustainable. How about economically? Is it sustainable to have every artist supported by 100 true fans? Maybe. It means enough people have disposable income to spend $1000 a year on something, and that every artist finds a niche. Those artists who already got 100 fans would drop out of the marketplace, leav…

>>I think a much more sustainable model is a UBI that isn’t truly “unconditional” but a gated community where successful artists and their patrons voluntarily agree to redistribute some wealth to new artists that keep showing progress in their craft.

It seems like you're inferring that unconditional UBI is not sustainable and therefore immoral according to Kant's definition.

While that position may ruffle some feathers, you may have a point. How do you ensure that under conditional UBI that recipients are adequately redistributing their productivity/wealth?

Re: 1k True Fans? Try 100 (2020)

#75

I'm quite interested in learning more about what kind of things people are willing to pay 80-100 USD a month for on Patreon. The author also throws around some percentages of the growth of hig end payers on Patreon, but no hard numbers. Did it increase by 5 people? Are high paying patrons growing faster than low paying?

While it doesn't fit TFA's premise of 100 on one thing, Patreon is used as a donation platform by many groups, for example i know of several online radio platforms using it (when asked "why not Liberapay?", they say Patreon helps take care of business and tax issues, provides an API, etc.). DKFM uses the API to display their Patreon donors on the website for example. Sci-fi publications use it as well for monthly sub…

> when asked "why not Liberapay?", they say Patreon helps take care of business and tax issues, provides an API, etc.

Another big advantage, especially in audio / video formats, is that you can say "support me on Patreon" and people will know what you're talking about, vs. needing to spell out a URL for people.

Re: 1k True Fans? Try 100 (2020)

#76

I'm quite interested in learning more about what kind of things people are willing to pay 80-100 USD a month for on Patreon. The author also throws around some percentages of the growth of hig end payers on Patreon, but no hard numbers. Did it increase by 5 people? Are high paying patrons growing faster than low paying?

> I'm quite interested in learning more about what kind of things people are willing to pay 80-100 USD a month for on Patreon.

This is probably not representative over the whole population, but, I have a Patreon. I had a few people pay me $50/month (where the base tier is $5/month). The $50/month tier has no extra benefits besides a vanity Discord role. So why did they do it? They genuinely want to support whatever I'm doing. That's it.

Re: 1k True Fans? Try 100 (2020)

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's encouraging if you think of it as a funnel optimization problem. What can I do for the $100 per year set? T shirts or other swag? Signed merch? What can I do for the $10 per year set? Stickers?

Surprisingly we don't have a ton of creators offering swag stuff, I'd have assumed that it would have been a bigger draw (Some of that might have to do with us not really offering any support on our platform, but it's not a common request either). If there's a "product" to sell, it's usually either the content itself, or access through things like community. But like I said in another comment, how much people spend i…

This is pretty interesting! I've been thinking about a platform for unique swag for podcasters, streamers, youtubers, etc. as I think there's definitely an opportunity to engage with fans there, but I imagine it's pretty overwhelming and expensive to figure out how to do it effectively if you are busy producing content. I sell an item that'd be perfect for those folks to giveaway/sell and I know how hard it is to figure out shipping and logistics.

Re: 1k True Fans? Try 100 (2020)

#78
post #46

Immanuel Kant once formulated the categorical imperative … something is moral if it can work universally and be sustainable. How about economically? Is it sustainable to have every artist supported by 100 true fans? Maybe. It means enough people have disposable income to spend $1000 a year on something, and that every artist finds a niche. Those artists who already got 100 fans would drop out of the marketplace, leav…

>>I think a much more sustainable model is a UBI that isn’t truly “unconditional” but a gated community where successful artists and their patrons voluntarily agree to redistribute some wealth to new artists that keep showing progress in their craft. It seems like you're inferring that unconditional UBI is not sustainable and therefore immoral according to Kant's definition. While that position may ruffle some feathe…

I am pragmatic, not a purist. Having more people (refugees, starving artists etc.) receiving money from benefactors is better than less.

That means spreading the wealth redistribution as thinly as possible: one person one account (it is also good for voting).

We can approach such a system by kicking out the artists who already got 100 donors, and forcing them “off the market” the same way someone should leave a dating site when they paired off.

The problem is that various actors have incentives create fake accounts. It isn’t even so much about UBI for people being unsustainable, but that people can create fake accounts (sybil attacks). There HAS to be a gatekeeping mechanism. There has to be a condition, the U can’t stand for Unconditional. It can stand for Universal (to all members of a community).

The hard part is ensuring there is no serious corruption in the mechanisms that whitelist accounts. WorldCoin scans eyeballs and Proof of Humanity does network analysis and tokenomics. I think that there should be a self-regulating organization (SRO like FINRA is for example) of KYC providers that stake a surety bond proportional to how many accounts they whitelist, and if some duplicates or fake accounts can be proven, in some sort of due process, they lose that stake. So they have some enforcement.

But still it may not be enough, for example for a national election there are strong incentives to register fake voters, and if the whole thing is done without appearing in person then that’s even easier to do. So then you need really harsh penalties for corrupt bureaucrats and ways to revoke certifications. But by that time some amount of UBI / welfare / disability benefits will have been paid out, or an election to install a director or head fo state has already taken place.

Far better not to concentrate the wealth and power to begin with, because then there would be less incentive to cheat and rally and grab the spoils of “war” whether that is marauders raiding a village, or a political party taking over an election, or Jeff Bezos now picking winners and losers in his investments / philanthropy

Basically, it is not that UBI is unsustainable, but that free (or subsidized, by exceeding the value whatever contribution the recipient makes to the system) money requires some increasingly harsh mechanisms to vet people.

At the end of the day though, we need such systems as there is a growing proportion of people whose labor just simply isn’t valuable enough to exceed their cost of living. And asking them to forego the modern conveniences of life, like safe potable running water and at least 500 square feet of space to live in, safe neighborhoods, access to lifesaving emergency medicine etc. is silly. If we subdidizs them anyway, why not standardize the system and remove corruption?

Re: 1k True Fans? Try 100 (2020)

#80
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cum Town makes close to 100k per month on Patreon. Proof that you can make a lot of money by just fucking around.

Well someone can ... "you" probably can't ;)

I don't know dude, I've got a pretty foul mouth and opinions.
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