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What caused the hallucinations of the Oracle of Delphi?

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Re: What caused the hallucinations of the Oracle of Delphi?

#71

Post by noasaservice »

I know that magic is poo-pooed and all, but, have you considered that answer as well? Or perhaps they weren't hallucinations, and instead divinations. Calling what the Oracle of Delphi had "hallucinations" puts a bad spin on it from the onset.

Or lets not get hung up with the word "magic". Lets call it a 5th type of energy. Mechanical detection don't work, but a number of humans can feel it. Hard to measure for sure. Some people are more connected to that energy than others. But again, being human-centric at this time makes verification hard/impossible.

What I would adore is a theorem to connect that energy to the 4 other types of energy (EM, strong, weak, gravity). And then, we can start scientifically describing all of those "weird" human issues of stuff we just shouldn't know (I'm thinking of: past life recollections, feeling someone staring at you, parental intuitions that something's wrong with a child, etc).

Re: What caused the hallucinations of the Oracle of Delphi?

#74

Post by Mathnerd314 »

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #15
krisoft wrote: post #7

> Moreover, ethylene in the concentrations that cause trances is extremely flammable, and there’s no historical record of any explosions or fires. That doesn't seem to be true. Herodotus 2.180: "When the Amphictyons paid three hundred talents to have the temple that now stands at Delphi finished (as that which was formerly there burnt down by accident), it was the Delphians' lot to pay a fourth of the cost." [1] I'm…

"There is no historical record of..." is an interesting assertion. On the one hand, it's easy to make and sort of requires no citation because there wouldn't be one. "There is no historical record of Caesar's fondness for juggling." But on the other hand, it's a dangerous claim because it's extremely falsifiable, like in your example. But I suppose it's easy to say "whoops, I read all of the historical records but fo…

A stronger claim is to limit yourself to some sources: "There is no record of X in A's history of B or C's history of D." If you read the sources it is unlikely to be falsified, and the reader who wants to debate you at least knows where not to look.

Re: What caused the hallucinations of the Oracle of Delphi?

#75

Post by t_mann »

sdfhdhjdw3 wrote: post #58
narag wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Drugs" is simple enough. Actually training naked virgins to go bananas without some chemical help seems a little more complicated. Something the article doesn't seem to consider is the possibilty that there was some kind of (natural or built) chamber where the gas could get trapped and thus concentration be higher.

Not training. Maybe she figured out that making up bullshit gave her power. Seems a lot simpler than "drugs".

The role must have been filled by dozens of different individuals over the centuries, it seems reasonable to assume that there was some kind of induction process for new recruits.

Re: What caused the hallucinations of the Oracle of Delphi?

#76

Post by krapp »

lordnacho wrote: post #70

Cynical me thinks the simplest explanation is it was all just a big show they put on. Similar to when my aunt went to a fortune teller who guessed she had six kids. The fortune teller was probably just well informed about the local environment. If you're running an Oracle business, your customers are already locked in. It's a long pilgrimage to get there, so you've probably got something important to ask about. The s…

If you look into the examples of oracular statements from Delphi[0], and assume them to be an accurate representation, many of them are vague enough that a "true" interpretation can be found in hindsight from various outcomes.

And it is likely that a lot of those prophecies were informed by having a unique amount of access to political and social dealings throughout the Greek world. It helps when all the kings and all the priests come to you and tell you their secrets.

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oracular_statements_fr...

Re: What caused the hallucinations of the Oracle of Delphi?

#78

Post by krapp »

sdfhdhjdw3 wrote: post #58
narag wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Drugs" is simple enough. Actually training naked virgins to go bananas without some chemical help seems a little more complicated. Something the article doesn't seem to consider is the possibilty that there was some kind of (natural or built) chamber where the gas could get trapped and thus concentration be higher.

Not training. Maybe she figured out that making up bullshit gave her power. Seems a lot simpler than "drugs".

I think this is too cynical. This was all religious practice for the time, and the Oracle probably believed she was actually receiving visions from Apollo just as many modern churchgoers believe in visions and prophecies from God.

Re: What caused the hallucinations of the Oracle of Delphi?

#79

Post by [deleted] »

goto11 wrote: post #51

The final point about positivism is important. Geeks love naturalistic explanations of mythological ideas, however far fetched. Trolls are really cultural memory of Neanderthals. Dragons are dinosaurs. The witch craze was due to ergot poisoning etc. If anyone is interested in what actual historians think about such theories, read for example this: https://kiwihellenist.blogspot.com/2018/06/delphic-oracle.ht... Tl/dr:…

[deleted]

Re: What caused the hallucinations of the Oracle of Delphi?

#80

Post by pyuser583 »

Prophesying was a common function for ancient priests.

The flights of birds, the guts of sacrificial offerings. E All sorts of things.

The prophesies were usually very pragmatic and politically conservative (not edgy).

It’s not hard to do. Many modern magicians do the same thing. Fortune cookies, etc.

It’s not hard to do this, but being intoxicated makes it harder not easier.

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