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A Kernel Hacker Meets Fuchsia OS

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Re: A Kernel Hacker Meets Fuchsia OS

#71
post #65

The objective of computer security seems to have shifted from preventing someone else from running unauthoirzed software on your computer to preventing you from running unauthorized software on your computer. I would not describe this as security.

The computer doesn’t know whether it’s you or somebody pretending to be you. Unauthorised execution should be possible but should be off by default, that’s 100% better for consumers.

Sorry if I got your point wrong :)

Re: A Kernel Hacker Meets Fuchsia OS

#72
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"How insecure" a surprising conclusion based on a single exploit.

If you read the article it mentions that ASLR doesn't work, and it's treated as a "known bug".

Do you assume I didn't read the article? Calling it insecure based on this is absurd.

Re: A Kernel Hacker Meets Fuchsia OS

#73
post #65

The objective of computer security seems to have shifted from preventing someone else from running unauthoirzed software on your computer to preventing you from running unauthorized software on your computer. I would not describe this as security.

I would guess you have never worked as a technical suppport for your family’s computers? Because even if I very much understand your point, not being able to run untrusted code absolutely is a security advancement in certain situations. It is SO refreshing and liberating to be able to say: Do whatever you want with it, it’s very hard to damage on the software side.

Re: A Kernel Hacker Meets Fuchsia OS

#74
post #47

The people who work on fuchsia are very good engineers - I’ve worked with many of them in person. But the project itself has always been a staff retention project. It only existed to keep said engineers from going to a competitor. I don’t know how any understanding of fuchsia is possible without this crucial fact

Does that mean you don't believe it's going to replace Android/AOSP? It's in some Nest devices right now.

Plausible real-world applications make it more effective as a "staff retention project", eh?

Re: A Kernel Hacker Meets Fuchsia OS

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. Is this in practice implemented as just capabilities being large numbers so it's impractical to guess them, or does the kernel have a table with all of a process's capabilities and when a message is sent to a process with capabilities the kernel adds them to the table? That is -- are capabilities just pieces of data in a message you can detect and try to use, or do they have to be added explicitly to a m…

In theory you could do even better than that -- you could make capabilities cryptographically signed tokens, so that you don't need to ask the kernel to verify the validity of your request every time. If your chipset supports crypto intrinsics this will almost certainly be better than an interrupted syscall.

Not even theoretical. An early capability based OS called KeyKOS worked that way.

Re: A Kernel Hacker Meets Fuchsia OS

#76
post #73
post #65

The objective of computer security seems to have shifted from preventing someone else from running unauthoirzed software on your computer to preventing you from running unauthorized software on your computer. I would not describe this as security.

I would guess you have never worked as a technical suppport for your family’s computers? Because even if I very much understand your point, not being able to run untrusted code absolutely is a security advancement in certain situations. It is SO refreshing and liberating to be able to say: Do whatever you want with it, it’s very hard to damage on the software side.

Agreed. However should Operating Systems for consumers only really cater to that use case? Because that is the problem IMO.

Re: A Kernel Hacker Meets Fuchsia OS

#78
post #65

The objective of computer security seems to have shifted from preventing someone else from running unauthoirzed software on your computer to preventing you from running unauthorized software on your computer. I would not describe this as security.

We’ve learned that most software that we run on our computers shouldn’t be completely trusted and most users can be tricked into running malicious software. Pretending that supply chain attacks don’t exist isn’t security either.

The ability to sandbox software (with a lot of effort) means that you can run software you don’t trust. The web is built on this.

Re: A Kernel Hacker Meets Fuchsia OS

#79
post #73
post #65

The objective of computer security seems to have shifted from preventing someone else from running unauthoirzed software on your computer to preventing you from running unauthorized software on your computer. I would not describe this as security.

I would guess you have never worked as a technical suppport for your family’s computers? Because even if I very much understand your point, not being able to run untrusted code absolutely is a security advancement in certain situations. It is SO refreshing and liberating to be able to say: Do whatever you want with it, it’s very hard to damage on the software side.

That's why I got my dad a chromebook. ChromeOS is a really well-engineered system- good enough that I never ever worried about security.

Re: A Kernel Hacker Meets Fuchsia OS

#80
post #65

The objective of computer security seems to have shifted from preventing someone else from running unauthoirzed software on your computer to preventing you from running unauthorized software on your computer. I would not describe this as security.

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