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Google's Subsea Fiber Optics

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Re: Google's Subsea Fiber Optics

#71

Post by noahtallen »

catmanjan wrote: post #64
aborsy wrote: post #59

The internet includes many components: semiconductors/electronics/chips, hardware, fiber optics, communication systems, networking, wireless, software, etc. There is a lot of work that must be done in different parts of this stack for this system to work. Yet, the private sector focuses mostly on the software part, or services. I have rarely seen a start up on improving optical fiber or electronic chips. The public s…

Tragedy of the commons, its the same reason there are big car companies but not big road companies.

But there are big telecom companies and big chip companies, etc.

Re: Google's Subsea Fiber Optics

#73

Post by glaucon »

aborsy wrote: post #59

The internet includes many components: semiconductors/electronics/chips, hardware, fiber optics, communication systems, networking, wireless, software, etc. There is a lot of work that must be done in different parts of this stack for this system to work. Yet, the private sector focuses mostly on the software part, or services. I have rarely seen a start up on improving optical fiber or electronic chips. The public s…

> The public sector builds the infrastructure

It's a little off your point but there was an amusing book published a few years ago which went through twelve, from memory, technologies on which the iPhone was totally dependent and which had all been developed out of the public purse.

Can't remember what it was called so if anyone recognises it I'd be interested to hear.

Re: Google's Subsea Fiber Optics

#74

Post by maxwindiff »

ortusdux wrote: post #5

I wonder how long it will be before we see the first hollow-core fiber subsea cables. They are 50% faster, and tests from the last year or two have seen record low signal losses. https://www.laserfocusworld.com/fiber-optics/article/1419605... https://www.ofsoptics.com/wp-content/uploads/Hollow-Core-Fib...

The "50% faster" stat is talking about latency, which is not really what subsea cables are about (massive bandwidth).

The more important figure is the attenuation at frequency bands used in telecommunication (C-band and L-band). According to the article, hollow core fibers are still much worse than solid core fibers (0.28 dB/km vs 0.14 dB/km).

Re: Google's Subsea Fiber Optics

#75

Post by fomine3 »

jeffbee wrote: post #18
dilyevsky wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also 80% utilization seems just ridiculously high to me but maybe at goog volume it’s doable

Google regularly runs these at 100%. According to the B4 paper: """These features allow many B4 links to run at near 100% utilization and all links to average 70% utilization over long time periods, corresponding to 2-3x efficiency improvements relative to standard practice"""

How they increase efficiency by using it at 100%? They would stop some lines at night?

Re: Google's Subsea Fiber Optics

#76

Post by eddieroger »

aborsy wrote: post #59

The internet includes many components: semiconductors/electronics/chips, hardware, fiber optics, communication systems, networking, wireless, software, etc. There is a lot of work that must be done in different parts of this stack for this system to work. Yet, the private sector focuses mostly on the software part, or services. I have rarely seen a start up on improving optical fiber or electronic chips. The public s…

The barrier to entry for a software company is nearly non-existent these days, where it's still really high for hardware. I can learn how to code, write an app, market and sell it all from a computer I can buy from Target or Walmart. Hardware is significantly harder to learn, then I'd have to source components, and scale beyond a prototype takes a significant amount of money. Scaling software is done with a button. You see more software made in the private sector because it's so much easier to do.

Re: Google's Subsea Fiber Optics

#77

Post by imranq »

glaucon wrote: post #73
aborsy wrote: post #59

The internet includes many components: semiconductors/electronics/chips, hardware, fiber optics, communication systems, networking, wireless, software, etc. There is a lot of work that must be done in different parts of this stack for this system to work. Yet, the private sector focuses mostly on the software part, or services. I have rarely seen a start up on improving optical fiber or electronic chips. The public s…

> The public sector builds the infrastructure It's a little off your point but there was an amusing book published a few years ago which went through twelve, from memory, technologies on which the iPhone was totally dependent and which had all been developed out of the public purse. Can't remember what it was called so if anyone recognises it I'd be interested to hear.

There is this book by Mariana Mazzucato: The Entrepreneurial State: debunking public vs. private sector myths

I haven't read it, but from the TOC, it looks like these are the technologies that are "invented" by public sector that the iPhone (and other smartphones) rely on:

* Giant magnetoresistance (GMR), SPINTRONICS programme and hard disk drives

* Solid-state chemistry and silicon-based semiconductor devices

* From capacitive sensing to click-wheels

* From click-wheels to multi-touch screens

* Internet and HTTP/HTML

* GPS and SIRI

* Battery, display and other technologies

ref: https://cms.marianamazzucato.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/...

Summary HBR article: https://hbr.org/2013/03/taxpayers-helped-apple-but-app

Re: Google's Subsea Fiber Optics

#79

Post by dilyevsky »

fomine3 wrote: post #75
jeffbee wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google regularly runs these at 100%. According to the B4 paper: """These features allow many B4 links to run at near 100% utilization and all links to average 70% utilization over long time periods, corresponding to 2-3x efficiency improvements relative to standard practice"""

How they increase efficiency by using it at 100%? They would stop some lines at night?

Haven’t read the paper yet but guessing just start egressing from random pops on the way when the pipes are full

Re: Google's Subsea Fiber Optics

#80

Post by xhrpost »

esoterae wrote: post #50
controversial97 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might be totally wrong; It seems likely to me that, due to capillary action, if a hollow undersea fiber gets physically cut then seawater would flow into the hollow center. The ends of the fiber might be at different depths with a pressure difference that could move water a long way into the fiber. I imagine the length that water got into would be ruined even if the water was pushed out again. I conjecture that und…

IIRC individual fibers are terminated every Nkm at a repeater. Not that it wouldn't be spendy, but I would also conjecture replacing a segment of fixed length instead of just gluing the ends back together might still be a reasonably strong constraint on unplanned repair cost (and also probably providing a pretty strong lower constraint as well--notably higher than solid core).

I don't think they are terminated every Nkm anymore. We have been able for quite some time to re-energize the signal directly in the optical core without needing to convert it to electric then back.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_pumping

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