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The weird Hewlett Packard FreeDOS option

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Re: The weird Hewlett Packard FreeDOS option

#71

Post by emteycz »

grishka wrote: post #56
aidenn0 wrote: post #23

I can't find a source for it, but my recollection is that MS considers selling a PC with no operating system as encouraging piracy of Windows. So I suspect this option is either due to an agreement with MS, or an overly cautious legal department.

Some countries have consumer protection laws that require that a factory-assembled computer must come with an OS. This whole FreeDOS thing feels like malicious compliance to me just to have something so it doesn't boot into a BIOS error. Though I've assumed that FreeDOS runs on bare metal. This whole Linux-with-a-VM feels strange, to say the least.

It's not malicious compliance. It's for power-users who already own or don't want to own a copy of Windows. It's a good thing that we (where I live) fought hard for - fortunately here it wasn't about laws but only about available options, so lobbying the vendors and sellers was enough.

Re: The weird Hewlett Packard FreeDOS option

#72

Post by bryanlarsen »

detaro wrote: post #52
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they they have to support that linux distro, with all the drivers, update etc.,... And the FreeDOS just works. Doesn't do much, but what it does, it does well.

but the Linux they are shipping underneath that FreeDOS also works. And they also offer Linux preinstalled, so they need to "support" that to whatever amount anyways.

They probably only support the FreeDOS, not the underlying distribution. If you mess with the Linux and break the FreeDOS, that's on you. They might have 2 customers running some 40 year old legacy DOS app but 99% of people selecting the FreeDOS option are wiping it to install something else, so using it unsupported.

Re: The weird Hewlett Packard FreeDOS option

#73

Post by Wowfunhappy »

aidenn0 wrote: post #59
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But customers can also order this laptop with Ubuntu preinstalled. Why offer both Ubuntu and FreeDOS, especially if the latter is just running inside of a Linux VM anyway?

When I last ordered from HP, many laptops did not have Linux as an option (mine did not, so I bought the FreeDOS version)

Well that's also weird! Why are both options available on some computers, while others only have FreeDOS, even when they can't actually run FreeDOS.

Re: The weird Hewlett Packard FreeDOS option

#74

Post by bryanlarsen »

userbinator wrote: post #69
walterbell wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It avoids HP paying Canonical and/or taking support calls on hundreds of Ubuntu feature packages.

The Ubuntu option appears to be free too.

Free to you, but HP is likely paying Ubuntu. They wouldn't be paying much, but they're probably paying something.

The Ubuntu license says that if they make any modification whatsoever, no matter how trivial, they can no longer call it Ubuntu. Just adding a driver is enough to trigger the clause, AFAICT.

Re: The weird Hewlett Packard FreeDOS option

#75

Post by mwcampbell »

userbinator wrote: post #20
yuhong wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel phased out the UEFI CSM from new platforms in 2020-2021.

I suppose you could use GRUB and whatever Coreboot has as its BIOS? Either way, sad times indeed when PCs aren't anymore.

Alternatively, we can be happy that some legacy systems actually die when they're no longer useful. My general attitude toward retro-computing is that the good old days weren't actually that good. I, for one, don't care if the original meaning of "PC" passes into irrelevance.

Re: The weird Hewlett Packard FreeDOS option

#76

Post by bryanlarsen »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #73
aidenn0 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I last ordered from HP, many laptops did not have Linux as an option (mine did not, so I bought the FreeDOS version)

Well that's also weird! Why are both options available on some computers, while others only have FreeDOS, even when they can't actually run FreeDOS.

My guess is that those computers are missing Linux drivers for modern devices like a camera or fingerprint scanner or something. Those wouldn't be expected to be supported in FreeDOS, but would be in Linux.

Re: The weird Hewlett Packard FreeDOS option

#77

Post by coryrc »

mcculley wrote: post #40
ndiddy wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird old legacy hardware that only runs on DOS generally requires real-time access to stuff like ISA cards or parallel/serial ports, so this wouldn't work for that use case since the computer doesn't have any of those.

I have a weird old nylon cutting machine connected to a DOS machine over a serial port. It would not work with a USB/RS-232 adaptor?

It probably won't if they do weird things with the flow control pins or if the timing really matters, but serial is far more likely than parallel to keep working.

Re: The weird Hewlett Packard FreeDOS option

#78

Post by wildzzz »

mcculley wrote: post #40
ndiddy wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird old legacy hardware that only runs on DOS generally requires real-time access to stuff like ISA cards or parallel/serial ports, so this wouldn't work for that use case since the computer doesn't have any of those.

I have a weird old nylon cutting machine connected to a DOS machine over a serial port. It would not work with a USB/RS-232 adaptor?

Spend no less than $20 on a USB to serial converter and you'd probably be fine. Anything with an FTDI chip in it are the best. Anything with a Prolific chip has a good possibility of being counterfeit will either not work well or the legit driver will try to brick it.

Re: The weird Hewlett Packard FreeDOS option

#79

Post by GekkePrutser »

coryrc wrote: post #77
mcculley wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a weird old nylon cutting machine connected to a DOS machine over a serial port. It would not work with a USB/RS-232 adaptor?

It probably won't if they do weird things with the flow control pins or if the timing really matters, but serial is far more likely than parallel to keep working.

Yeah this is why industrial PCs still have those physical ports.

Re: The weird Hewlett Packard FreeDOS option

#80

Post by dmitrygr »

yuhong wrote: post #17
dmitrygr wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> modern x86 processors can’t boot into BIOS mode anymore This is false. They still can and happily will. Issue is more about vendor not shipping a CSM image. A modern x86 processor will happily run real DOS just fine.

Intel officially pulled support in 2020-2021.

It still works fine, just not officially encouraged by Intel
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