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Humanity’s broken risk perception is reversing global progress

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Re: Humanity’s broken risk perception is reversing global progress

#71

Post by mort96 »

verisimi wrote: post #12
blueflow wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> let local people decide for themselves what they want to do - use leaded petrol - build fridges using HCFCs - burn trash This stuff had to be forbidden by the government to make it stop. The UN might be some corrupt stuff, but the point of reducing government at all is nonsense. People on their own won't stop doing harmful things if they dont suffer the consequences themself.

You're right - but also wrong. Governments built the roads - other solutions are conceivable. Tax payers paid once for the roads to be built, and are now paying for roads to made unusable for cars (lane restrictions, pedestrianisation, etc). That's a waste. Did you know that electric cars were very popular 100 years ago - but because of the oil industry + government, they were quashed? Government waves through unacce…

Don't dodge the topic. Propose how leaded gasoline would have been phased out earlier if only governments didn't make them illegal. Answer the same question for HCFCs.

Re: Humanity’s broken risk perception is reversing global progress

#72

Post by temp8964 »

I_DRINK_KOOLAID wrote: post #43
temp8964 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also do remember WHO played political game on the side of China at the beginning of the pandemic. That’s one of the reasons we got in this new SARS.

Wuhan had its first cases on Dec-17th , on Jan-14th the sequence was out and shipped across the globe. If you think that delay is bad wait and see if a pandemic develops in Yemen or in Sub-Saharan Africa...those countries would need 8-9 months to notice an outbreak not to mention sequencing. We have an example with HIV. It made the leap somewhere in Africa between 1945 and 1952. The world noticed it when it arrived t…

Yes. China with a level 4 biolab should be compared to Yemen or Sub-Saharan Africa. LOL.

Re: Humanity’s broken risk perception is reversing global progress

#73

Post by sgift »

temp8964 wrote: post #72
I_DRINK_KOOLAID wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wuhan had its first cases on Dec-17th , on Jan-14th the sequence was out and shipped across the globe. If you think that delay is bad wait and see if a pandemic develops in Yemen or in Sub-Saharan Africa...those countries would need 8-9 months to notice an outbreak not to mention sequencing. We have an example with HIV. It made the leap somewhere in Africa between 1945 and 1952. The world noticed it when it arrived t…

Yes. China with a level 4 biolab should be compared to Yemen or Sub-Saharan Africa. LOL.

There are two BSL4 labs in Sub-Saharan Africa. One in Gabon, one in South Africa.

Re: Humanity’s broken risk perception is reversing global progress

#76

Post by coderenegade »

verisimi wrote: post #12
blueflow wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> let local people decide for themselves what they want to do - use leaded petrol - build fridges using HCFCs - burn trash This stuff had to be forbidden by the government to make it stop. The UN might be some corrupt stuff, but the point of reducing government at all is nonsense. People on their own won't stop doing harmful things if they dont suffer the consequences themself.

You're right - but also wrong. Governments built the roads - other solutions are conceivable. Tax payers paid once for the roads to be built, and are now paying for roads to made unusable for cars (lane restrictions, pedestrianisation, etc). That's a waste. Did you know that electric cars were very popular 100 years ago - but because of the oil industry + government, they were quashed? Government waves through unacce…

Electric vehicles weren't quashed, they were outcompeted by a more capable product. And to be honest, that's still pretty much the case even a century later. BEVs still don't have the range or the towing capacity of conventional vehicles, and charging one is still nowhere near the power transfer of a standard petrol bowser. That's not to say they don't work for a large chunk of the population -- I think it's pretty clear that they can and do -- but petrol cars are ubiquitous because they're capable of tremendous up-time, in any environment, require relatively little maintenance, and they'll perform for hundreds of thousands of kilometers even on an ordinary maintenance schedule.

I mean, I'd like to see the world move away from fossil fuels as well, but acting like BEVs are somehow universally better than ICEVs without acknowledging the tremendous ability and success of regular cars, and the shortcomings of BEVs, doesn't really help the cause, because in certain regions, applications, and for certain individuals, BEVs really are the wrong choice. There needs to be more acknowledgement of this, and acceptance of the fact that maybe a one-size-fits-all solution won't be the future of automobile propulsion.

Re: Humanity’s broken risk perception is reversing global progress

#77

Post by hnbad »

verisimi wrote: post #12
blueflow wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> let local people decide for themselves what they want to do - use leaded petrol - build fridges using HCFCs - burn trash This stuff had to be forbidden by the government to make it stop. The UN might be some corrupt stuff, but the point of reducing government at all is nonsense. People on their own won't stop doing harmful things if they dont suffer the consequences themself.

You're right - but also wrong. Governments built the roads - other solutions are conceivable. Tax payers paid once for the roads to be built, and are now paying for roads to made unusable for cars (lane restrictions, pedestrianisation, etc). That's a waste. Did you know that electric cars were very popular 100 years ago - but because of the oil industry + government, they were quashed? Government waves through unacce…

Government bad! Here's an example of businesses using their power over the government to do bad things. Let's deregulate businesses further so they don't need to use the government to do bad things because they can do them themselves.

Did I miss anything?

Re: Humanity’s broken risk perception is reversing global progress

#78

Post by calvano915 »

lm28469 wrote: post #51
verisimi wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_electric_vehicl... "In 1828, the Hungarian priest and physicist Ányos Jedlik invented an early type of electric motor, and created a small model car powered by his new motor." 1828!! "Rechargeable batteries that provided a viable means for storing electricity on board a vehicle did not come into being until 1859, with the invention of the lead–acid battery by French physic…

> It was viable technology! Both were viable, one was much more easily developed. We can talk viability all day long, sadly it's history and there isn't much to discuss. Solar panels are also viable and cheap right now, yet we don't use them much. Something existing and working doesn't mean it scales as easily as the alternatives. If electricity storage is still a problem in 2022 you can imagine that it would be extr…

The viability was not properly assessed in regards to externalities of the targeted tech. Climate change, security related to oil, etc was not properly priced in.

Re: Humanity’s broken risk perception is reversing global progress

#79

Post by glogla »

refurb wrote: post #35
blueflow wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> let local people decide for themselves what they want to do - use leaded petrol - build fridges using HCFCs - burn trash This stuff had to be forbidden by the government to make it stop. The UN might be some corrupt stuff, but the point of reducing government at all is nonsense. People on their own won't stop doing harmful things if they dont suffer the consequences themself.

So if let's say, Myanmar doesn't stop using CFCs. What's your solution? Send in some Blue Helmets to enforce global law? And what if they start shooting back? You want to send your son or daughter there? And not to mention the politics of rich countries sending soldiers into poor countries to enforce rules. Colonialism 2.0. "It's the developed world's obligations to drag the uncivilized nations into the the 21st cent…

> You want to send your son or daughter there?

That is why unmanned platforms are really important military development.

Re: Humanity’s broken risk perception is reversing global progress

#80

Post by jhugo »

blfr wrote: post #57

I think this is completely backwards. We are not risking enough and the progress has stalled as a result. During the 1880-1950 we were causing massive disasters all around, literally nuking cities. But that period is also where we came up with virtually all of technology that makes the modern world: cars, planes, radio, computers, nuclear power, jet propulsion. Since then (also ~70 years) we have maintained a little…

"Risk" is incredibly broad.

The linked article seems quite focused on disaster risk, which in terms of its increase is mostly climate-related.

The perceived reduction in progress over decades may have more to do with societal changes in individual risk perception. For example, we were more comfortable with people dying in the name of progress in 1880-1950.

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