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We Can All Become Job Creators

nytimes.com

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Re: We Can All Become Job Creators

#71

Post by lupatus »

prostoalex wrote: post #45
OstiaAntica wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, currently the government punishes companies that hire employees-- all sorts of payroll, worker's comp, and unemployment taxes, and also workplace legal liability that is extreme in the U.S. To the degree there is already a lot of central planning in U.S. labor markets, the government actively works against employment.

In Denmark, they tax fatty foods to discourage them. In the States, we tax payroll.

A vice tax on fatty foods makes no sense if (1) you are trying to improve the health of the populace, and (2) you know about the health benefits of ketogenic diets[1]. If those are Denmark's goals, then they should instead be taxing sugary foods. Otherwise, I am forced to conclude that Denmark is either (a) dumb, or (b) purposefully decreasing their citizens' health.

[1]http://www.ketogenic-diet-resource.com/

Re: We Can All Become Job Creators

#72

Post by cjy »

achompas wrote: post #66
AJ007 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thomas Friedman had a column in the NYTimes about a week ago. While I did not agree with the specific, this quote was gold: "We cannot bail or tax-cut our way to prosperity. We can only, as Jobs understood, invent our way there." Measuring GDP, inflation, deflation, the unemployment rate, all of these numbers are not a reflection of quality of life. Prosperity is a quality of life issue which is solely improved (or d…

If you're going to listen to a Friedman talk about economics, make it Milton. Quoting Thomas Friedman is an exercise in pop sociology and buzzword-dropping. Invention is not a necessary or sufficient condition for prosperity. You can arrive there via many paths (thriftiness or wise investment, service provision, etc.).

I don't like Thomas Friedman either. But, that is a good quote that I think Milton would agree with. He doesn't say that invention is a necessary condition for prosperity. He said it is a necessary condition for prosperity GROWTH.

Re: We Can All Become Job Creators

#73

Post by rhubarbquid »

jallmann wrote: post #38

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems like a way to tug at people's heartstrings for free capital. If interest goes back to the original investors (donors), surely Starbucks is not going to track down everyone who contributed a dollar for their $1.05 back. Someone is going to profit handsomely from this, unless all the proceeds are reinvested into other loans.

Yeah, I have the same concern. "Americans themselves would start lending to small businesses" and " Starbucks customers would be able to donate money to the effort when they bought their coffee." don't really agree with each other. Donating isn't lending.

On the other hand, lending isn't a sure thing. We might be talking about people getting their $0 back from their $1 investment if the borrower defaults.

Re: We Can All Become Job Creators

#74

Post by rhubarbquid »

mfringel wrote: post #57

The term "Job Creator" is a clever-as-in-clever-bastard way of re-framing the discussion. "Job Creators" become their own privileged class of people who have the secret knowledge of how to Create Jobs. Also, the term "Creator" implies a certain deity-like status, as if only they have the power to create jobs from the void. I much prefer "employer."

or "lender" in the context of this article.

Re: We Can All Become Job Creators

#75

Post by SkyMarshal »

AJ007 wrote: post #58
hugh3 wrote: post #3

We need to stop talking about "job creation" and start talking about "wealth creation". It's easy to create jobs -- e.g. I can go round breaking windows with rocks and create jobs for glaziers. But creating jobs that create wealth -- that is, to create an opportunity for someone else to join their labour with my capital in order to build something that someone wishes to pay for, thus enriching all three of us... well…

Thomas Friedman had a column in the NYTimes about a week ago. While I did not agree with the specific, this quote was gold: "We cannot bail or tax-cut our way to prosperity. We can only, as Jobs understood, invent our way there." Measuring GDP, inflation, deflation, the unemployment rate, all of these numbers are not a reflection of quality of life. Prosperity is a quality of life issue which is solely improved (or d…

This is directed at Thomas Friedman, not you... He is the most uncritical cheerleader blowhard I've just about ever read. He spent the early 2000s raving about how outsourcing America's wealth-creation capacity was a great thing, and now he's taking the lead in lamenting it.

I don't know who feeds him his ideas, but he lacks experience, judgment, and wisdom to fully evaluate them himself, and is at best an unskilled popularizer of spurious memes. The few times he says something not totally sophomoric, it's almost certainly due to random chance alone. Broken clock is right twice a day.

If you're going to listen to any one person on this issue, Andy Grove is the one:

http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/news/bmag/sbsm1106/manufacturing...

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/10_28/b41860483...

I wish I could vote for Grove for President. I just might write him in.

/rant

Re: We Can All Become Job Creators

#76

Post by teyc »

ReceivablesExchange (mixergy interview) solves the problem of cashflow by securitizing invoices, and having institutions bid for them. It is an interesting practice because it is less labour intensive than traditional factorization, and is better at spreading risk.

Re: We Can All Become Job Creators

#77

Post by fraserharris »

eru wrote: post #64
nostromo wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment reminds me of my own personal frustration with our governance and current economy. I have a modest sum of money in various forms. The central bank in the US is basically said to me, "stop saving!" because interest rates are so low and inflation is likely to be high in the future -- there's no point. Saving is out. (You think we would have learned something...) So, let's look at possible investments. Real…

> So, I could find property to buy outright, but it seems that wouldn't being taking advantage of any real leverage. Why are you looking for leverage? Isn't 50% quite a lot of leverage?

Its actually 100% leverage of his investment.

Re: We Can All Become Job Creators

#78

Post by achompas »

cjy wrote: post #72
achompas wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're going to listen to a Friedman talk about economics, make it Milton. Quoting Thomas Friedman is an exercise in pop sociology and buzzword-dropping. Invention is not a necessary or sufficient condition for prosperity. You can arrive there via many paths (thriftiness or wise investment, service provision, etc.).

I don't like Thomas Friedman either. But, that is a good quote that I think Milton would agree with. He doesn't say that invention is a necessary condition for prosperity. He said it is a necessary condition for prosperity GROWTH.

I'm shocked that you inferred as much from his quote. He's notoriously vague (because he's not actually saying anything), and after re-reading the quote I'm not sure where you got the "growth" part from.

Re: We Can All Become Job Creators

#79

Post by anon808 »

lupatus wrote: post #67
anon808 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Money is simply a proxy for the value of the goods/services they produce for the society." If that's true, explain drug money. I'm being serious. Money is a decent proxy, but not perfect. It's important to remember that. It's good at measuring quantity, not quality.

I'll bite. Drug dealers/producers produce products that provide the user with exotic and novel experiences and which may increase the user's sociability. Similar to the travel industry and a personal life coach in a small form factor, drugs are good/service that many people seem to want.

If you believe that drugs add value to people's life, then you've chosen the world you want to live in. I chose to believe that (addictive) drugs are really a tax levied on people with weaknesses to be exploited (we all have weaknesses that can be exploited). The purchase of addictive drugs doesn't create value but redistributes wealth from the folks that are weak to the exploiters of that weakness. I don't value drug wealth. That's the world I choose to live in.

Re: We Can All Become Job Creators

#80

Post by brc »

hvs wrote: post #16
hugh3 wrote: post #3

We need to stop talking about "job creation" and start talking about "wealth creation". It's easy to create jobs -- e.g. I can go round breaking windows with rocks and create jobs for glaziers. But creating jobs that create wealth -- that is, to create an opportunity for someone else to join their labour with my capital in order to build something that someone wishes to pay for, thus enriching all three of us... well…

I generally feel (and this is generally due to my Austrian economic leanings) that talking about easier access to capital (through artificially lowering interest rates) is confusing the symptoms with the disease. We need to build up the capital in this country through saving and investment in companies, but that is not accomplished by just wishing it (through economic manipulation). We are in the midst of a massive h…

Well I'm with you, but would just like to add the intention should not necessarily be full employment but full production.

We talk about jobs as the most important things, but in reality it is maximising production that is the most important thing. If every farm maximised production, then food becomes more plentiful. If every factory maxmises production, then goods become more plentiful.

The fascination with GDP (as a monetary figure) and Jobs, to me, is looking at the wrong metrics.

There is plenty of capital around. A lot more would come out from the shadows if it found productive uses. But trying to force capital out by lowering the price you can get on it (ie,lowering interest rates) is a bizarre way of going about things.

The key has to be on increasing productivity. This includes not wasting human and monetary capital on pointless schemes (ie, make work schemes and losing investments). The rest will fall into place once this is done.

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