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Earlier quoted context omitted.
Please think for a second about how a WFH policy might impact some groups more than others.
I don't think that's physically possible on HN
Stop whining and vote with your feet. If you're talented enough to work for Apple, there are plenty of other wonderful companies out there that will happily let you work remotely. Not every company needs to have the exact same policies on everything.
>"Stop whining and vote with your feet." If this is a deal breaker, yes. But this kind of approach is a last resort. Why shouldn't someone try to influence company policy before taking such a drastic step?
Happy to be proven wrong here, but labor doesn't have much power in the US; especially when it's labor against a trillion dollar company.
People want to have their cake and eat it too. Silicon Valley companies pay very well because cost of living is very high in the area and they _need_ to pay well to attract talent in that area. If remote work becomes the norm, pay will start to even out across the country. If you live in a place that didn't pay well before, you'll be better off, but if you live in a high cost of work area, you'll probably be worse of…
They pay well because demand for engineers is high. Cost of living is high because engineers have bought all the stock in the area. You've got the order backwards.
> CEO Tim Cook called in-person collaboration benefits "irreplaceable" and in an email, the executive team talked about the importance of "the serendipity that comes from bumping into colleagues" during in-person work. Another extroverted MBA who doesn't understand why many engineers need big, unbroken chunks of silence & concentration to do great work.
I understand that people like work from home, but implying engineering can’t be done in an office building is overselling the issue by quite a bit.
Stop whining and vote with your feet. If you're talented enough to work for Apple, there are plenty of other wonderful companies out there that will happily let you work remotely. Not every company needs to have the exact same policies on everything.
>"Stop whining and vote with your feet." If this is a deal breaker, yes. But this kind of approach is a last resort. Why shouldn't someone try to influence company policy before taking such a drastic step?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is it really hard to imagine that it’s easier to afford a comfortable vehicle to commute in, not to mention housing with a shorter commute, as a 45 year old senior manager than as a 22 year old just starting out with significant college debt?
Software engineering salaries start at six figures with signing bonuses in the tens of thousands. 22 years are buying houses and cars when they land at Apple.
If the more senior people get paid even more, how does this contribute to making the workforce skew younger?
Have you considered that there are jobs besides software engineering at Apple? And those jobs might also have 22 year olds working at them? Is the entry level marketing assistant getting six figures and stock options too?
People want to have their cake and eat it too. Silicon Valley companies pay very well because cost of living is very high in the area and they _need_ to pay well to attract talent in that area. If remote work becomes the norm, pay will start to even out across the country. If you live in a place that didn't pay well before, you'll be better off, but if you live in a high cost of work area, you'll probably be worse of…
They pay well because demand for engineers is high. Cost of living is high because engineers have bought all the stock in the area. You've got the order backwards.
Honestly, at least Apple laid out their intentions. People can leave or stay, but the policy is clear. At my workplace they keep nodding at "hybrid" without any specifics and the resulting fear due to uncertainty is far worse than a clear policy that some (many) people might not like...
If your hybrid is mandatory then you can expect to be back to full time 5 days in a years time approx.
This is pure supposition based on no evidence. It's entirely a byproduct of a lack of trust in management intentions.
Taking my company as an example, while the executive team has been ambiguous, I know that a full return to 5 days of asses in seats is not being contemplated at all, not the least of which because we don't want to lose ~30% of our staff.
But for the suspicious, it appears to be impossible to convince them otherwise, and even the slightest hint of asking people to come to the office even just one day a month elicits exactly this kind of response.
And the funny thing is, I absolutely understand the suspicion! It's just that, as a person in a leadership position, it makes me want to tear my hair out because I can shout from the rooftops that, no, we're never going to mandate a full return to office, but some folks will simply never believe it.
Hence why I admire what Apple has done, here. They laid out their policy, they've demonstrated their commitment to that policy, and now they're letting the staff make their decision about how they want to react to that policy. Whether you agree with the policy or not, that's far better than ambiguity or constant flip-flopping.
and will lead to a "younger, whiter, more male-dominated, more neuro-normative, more able-bodied" I mean, they're just asking you to come to the building 3 days a week.
Please think for a second about how a WFH policy might impact some groups more than others.
I'm curious why you think anyone needs to "think" about this. Some of us are perfectly happy with WFH and don't feel guilty for it, and there's really nothing to contemplate further and no moral crisis to spark.
Unfortunately the folks that get to make these decisions are so removed from the reality of their company's every day tasks that all they can think is "if I don't see butts in the seats I bought, then obviously no work is getting done".
That next week, a recruiter from BigTech sent me a message about applying for a software engineering position. I asked them would it be permanently remote. They said “no”. I was about to end the conversation. But then we kept talking and they suggested I talk to another department that was always designed to be remote. I got a job there.
There are way too many opportunities for software engineers to be begging a company to WFH.