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An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

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Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#71

Post by dr_orpheus »

bonestamp2 wrote: post #53
legitster wrote: post #34

Plastic gets a bad wrap. But it's a pretty dang efficient material. It takes so little energy and material to make something very functional and resilient. I know that CO2 analyses of the replacements to plastic bags and straws has not been very kind to them. I find it commendable to encourage people to consumer less stuff, but the war on plastic straws has been a huge step back - it's done relatively little to actua…

> the war on plastic straws has been a huge step back I always find it funny when they give me a huge plastic cup with a plastic lid and then a paper straw. If straws are that big of a problem, get sippy cup style lids and skip all straws.

Starbucks did this, and then people realized that the sippy cup style lids were thicker (to maintain the structure of the sippy part) and actually used more plastic than the old straw/top combo.

Starbucks said that the new plastic lids were more easily recycled because they were larger than straws (which aren't normally picked up by recycling machines) so it was still a net positive. But this goes back to the articles point of "its plastic, and its probably not going to get recycled anyway"

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jul/23/starbucks-s...

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#72

Post by vel0city »

JoshGlazebrook wrote: post #58

I don't think the answer is paper straws and I personally dislike them. They turn slimy from your saliva and usually collapse on themselves before you're done with using it. I normally end up taking multiple just to replace them halfway through drinking. More companies could go in the direction Starbucks has gone, switching their iced drink cups to "sippy cup" lids to eliminate the need for straws while maintaining a…

Hey now, I like Freestyle machines. Where else am I going to find Cherry Vanilla Coke Zero, Raspberry Peach Mellow Yellow, and Fuze Lemon Tea all on the same fountain?

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#73

Post by Ma8ee »

roughly wrote: post #61
legitster wrote: post #34

Plastic gets a bad wrap. But it's a pretty dang efficient material. It takes so little energy and material to make something very functional and resilient. I know that CO2 analyses of the replacements to plastic bags and straws has not been very kind to them. I find it commendable to encourage people to consumer less stuff, but the war on plastic straws has been a huge step back - it's done relatively little to actua…

I think the core problem is that there's a whole raft of things that get bucketed under "environmentally friendly" - for example: - CO2 - Lifespan of materials - Ecological impact of material extraction/creation - Ecological impact of the materials themselves - Energy cost of transport/etc. In this case, plastic is concerning because of the lifespan of the materials and the ecological impact of the materials - it may…

Plastic that is recycled or even incinerated to produce energy is often better than the alternatives. There are many environmental problems much bigger than plastic that ends up in landfills. I always thought that the problems with straws in particular was that a disproportionate amount ended up in the oceans. But even then I still suspect that it just was a way to distract people who care from the real problem of climate change so that the oil companies can make more money a bit longer.

Edit: no, I didn't read the article before I commented. I did now. I live in Sweden and put all our plastics in the recycle bin (one specifically for plastics). They are building better and bigger sorting and recycling facilities for plastic, but I think about 80% still is incinerated. Which of course releases greenhouse gases. But the plastic we throw away in a week corresponds to less CO2 than one trip back and fourth to work for my wife in our Prius.

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#74

Post by pg314 »

legitster wrote: post #34

Plastic gets a bad wrap. But it's a pretty dang efficient material. It takes so little energy and material to make something very functional and resilient. I know that CO2 analyses of the replacements to plastic bags and straws has not been very kind to them. I find it commendable to encourage people to consumer less stuff, but the war on plastic straws has been a huge step back - it's done relatively little to actua…

> but has imposed huge and everyday annoyances on everyone

Not on everyone. I can't remember the last time I used a straw, I manage to drink from a glass or a cup just fine. Is it really a huge annoyance for you? I understand that for some people (e.g. people with Parkinson's or a broken jaw) straws are a necessity, but most people should be able to manage just fine without them.

It's true that there are bigger contributors to plastic pollution, but it's hard to argue that plastic straws in the oceans or nature are a good thing.

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#76

Post by brian-armstrong »

pg314 wrote: post #74
legitster wrote: post #34

Plastic gets a bad wrap. But it's a pretty dang efficient material. It takes so little energy and material to make something very functional and resilient. I know that CO2 analyses of the replacements to plastic bags and straws has not been very kind to them. I find it commendable to encourage people to consumer less stuff, but the war on plastic straws has been a huge step back - it's done relatively little to actua…

> but has imposed huge and everyday annoyances on everyone Not on everyone. I can't remember the last time I used a straw, I manage to drink from a glass or a cup just fine. Is it really a huge annoyance for you? I understand that for some people (e.g. people with Parkinson's or a broken jaw) straws are a necessity, but most people should be able to manage just fine without them. It's true that there are bigger contr…

Nobody's forcing you to drink from a straw if you don't want to. Chill.

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#77

Post by chrisdhal »

JoshGlazebrook wrote: post #58

I don't think the answer is paper straws and I personally dislike them. They turn slimy from your saliva and usually collapse on themselves before you're done with using it. I normally end up taking multiple just to replace them halfway through drinking. More companies could go in the direction Starbucks has gone, switching their iced drink cups to "sippy cup" lids to eliminate the need for straws while maintaining a…

I was with you until the freestyle machine part, they're awesome. Seriously, what's wrong with them? It doesn't prevent you from getting the regular things.

I too, hate the paper straws. They are terrible. The "no straws" campaign is just a feel good thing and really does little.

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#78

Post by MerelyMortal »

troyvit wrote: post #67
MerelyMortal wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, part of the enjoyable expereince of drinking a milkshake is drinking it through a straw. Drinking a milkshake like a regular drink gives me no pleasure. I suppose if they ever went to paper straws where I live, i would just have to order a personal metal reusable straw.

Man I remember being a kid and drinking a McDonald's shake through a straw. It was so frustrating. My cheeks would be sucked in like a 60 year old actress with really bad plastic surgery and even then I'd just get a little bit.

Jack In The Box had wide, strong, blue straws when I was a kid, and they made drinking shakes easy. Now they have regular, small, thin-walled straws that does the same thing you're describing :-/

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#79

Post by JoshGlazebrook »

chrisdhal wrote: post #77
JoshGlazebrook wrote: post #58

I don't think the answer is paper straws and I personally dislike them. They turn slimy from your saliva and usually collapse on themselves before you're done with using it. I normally end up taking multiple just to replace them halfway through drinking. More companies could go in the direction Starbucks has gone, switching their iced drink cups to "sippy cup" lids to eliminate the need for straws while maintaining a…

I was with you until the freestyle machine part, they're awesome. Seriously, what's wrong with them? It doesn't prevent you from getting the regular things. I too, hate the paper straws. They are terrible. The "no straws" campaign is just a feel good thing and really does little.

I just find the consistency to be all over the place from machine to machine. Regular coke never tastes like coke. It's fine if you like adding lime/flavorings/etc but just getting the standard flavor of something is just always off.

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#80

Post by jholman »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #47
legitster wrote: post #34

Plastic gets a bad wrap. But it's a pretty dang efficient material. It takes so little energy and material to make something very functional and resilient. I know that CO2 analyses of the replacements to plastic bags and straws has not been very kind to them. I find it commendable to encourage people to consumer less stuff, but the war on plastic straws has been a huge step back - it's done relatively little to actua…

Plastics are cool materials but at the moment they're mostly made from fossil fuels so you're funding some really bad people by using them. They'll only use that money to convince gullible people that climate change isn't happening, that every government regulation will magically have exactly the opposite impact, that solar and wind power are scams, that recycling is bad for the planet and that science and democracy…

I'm confused.

There are people with fossil fuels. They want to make money from their access to fossil fuels. They will strive to do so, and some of them will strive without concern for the collective good. I think those things are clear.

If fossil fuels are burned for energy, that contributes directly to climate change. If those fossil fuels are converted into plastics which are put in landfills, that directly contributes less to climate change. I hope that all of the above is uncontroversial.

Where I get confused is this:

Do you think that reducing demand for plastic will result in less fossil fuels being burned? Do you think that reducing demand for non-burning-uses of fossil fuels will result in so much less production of fossil fuels that the overall price of oil-for-burning will go up?

I'm no economist, but your claim is the exact opposite of how I thought it works. Can you explain?

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