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Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

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Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#71

Post by sturza »

atoav wrote: post #37
notemaker wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This mindset is similar to what people with wired headphones think of Airpods et al. It's not an apparent benefit when you're in the bubble of thinking it's normal to have a wire going across your torso all day and hearing the thuds and bumps propagate through the wire to your ears. But when you buy a pair of wireless buds and have them for a week - you don't go back. You've discovered freedom. Likewise, with battery…

As an audio guy I tried, but I don't like the sound. My Sennheiser HD-25 cans are perfect for the road. The cable and the cups are propperly decoupled from the headpart, the cable comes as a plug and play replacement should it fail after 3 years of rough (including sports) use. I have had one pair of these headphones for 16 years now. I wonder how airpods would compare in terms of pure surviveability.

I have the 1st gen and the Pros. The 1st gen lasted 2 years on the mark until they started switching off without warning. I used them for music/audiobooks/calls. Now, i cannot really count on them for anything so i use them when i get (rare) gsm calls. I got a pair of 40€ airbuds from amazon wirh great battery life and sound(although i use them just for calls - i am in calls 10h per day and use just one at a time) but i cannot pair them to more than 1 machine. For other cases i use the pros.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#72

Post by Avamander »

capableweb wrote: post #60
gabereiser wrote: post #45

I find it rather peculiar that tech folks think a plastic laptop is good build quality considering what we have from Apple and others. I wish more linux laptops had the build quality and support of macbooks. This isn't a rant from an Apple fan, this is a rant from a laptop fan. ThinkPad's aren't good laptops despite what the guy with the pocket protector says. They are flimsy and feel cheap. They still have 20th cent…

I exclusively used MacBooks from 2012 to 2018 or something like that, before switching to a Carbon X1, and could never switch back. None of the laptops from Apple I had could actually be used from my lap, which is where I want to use my laptop, because of the heat coming from the bottom of the MacBooks. So I'm quite happy with plastic/softer materials rather than whatever metal material Apple uses.

You're talking about Intel, of course laptops with those are unpleasant.

You should try and compare a M1 Mac with your Carbon X1. Most likely yours runs much hotter.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#73

Post by scrlk »

gabereiser wrote: post #45

I find it rather peculiar that tech folks think a plastic laptop is good build quality considering what we have from Apple and others. I wish more linux laptops had the build quality and support of macbooks. This isn't a rant from an Apple fan, this is a rant from a laptop fan. ThinkPad's aren't good laptops despite what the guy with the pocket protector says. They are flimsy and feel cheap. They still have 20th cent…

I will never understand the fetishisation of metal as a "premium" feeling material - if anything, it's impractical for a laptop. (conducts heat so can be uncomfortable to use on your lap if the thermal solution is poorly designed; dents/bends when dropped; probably harder for RF/antenna design...)

It's the same reason why phones turned in to "premium" glass and metal sandwiches that people immediately slap in to a cheap plastic case because the "premium" design is simply too thin and slippery to use.

Samsung was rightly nailed in the 2010s for producing horrible plastic phones, but Nokia's use of quality polycarbonate in their Lumias were ignored.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#74

Post by ankurdhama »

gabereiser wrote: post #45

I find it rather peculiar that tech folks think a plastic laptop is good build quality considering what we have from Apple and others. I wish more linux laptops had the build quality and support of macbooks. This isn't a rant from an Apple fan, this is a rant from a laptop fan. ThinkPad's aren't good laptops despite what the guy with the pocket protector says. They are flimsy and feel cheap. They still have 20th cent…

Why do you need such a build quality? Do you toss around your laptops? Do you keep dropping your laptop? My question is what is the use of such a build quality (apart from the very subjective - "it feels good")

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#75

Post by byefruit »

Avamander wrote: post #66
byefruit wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth this is comparing against a 10th gen Intel. The 12th gen ones look like they'll outperform the M1s on a similar battery life: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-XPS-13-Plus-with-i7-1280P... Note that that is a 12th gen P. I suspect the U CPUs won't perform quite as well but will offer much better battery life than the MBP.

You'll get similar battery life only if the Intel gets severely power limited. A newer AMD would be more comparable.

If you scroll down on the link above you can see some graphs that show the 1280P is significantly faster than the M1 and the battery lives are very similar 11 hours vs 13 hours.

AMD are also doing a good job. The 7000s look very good. Crazy that this is still on a larger process node than Apple.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#76

Post by faeriechangling »

ankurdhama wrote: post #74
gabereiser wrote: post #45

I find it rather peculiar that tech folks think a plastic laptop is good build quality considering what we have from Apple and others. I wish more linux laptops had the build quality and support of macbooks. This isn't a rant from an Apple fan, this is a rant from a laptop fan. ThinkPad's aren't good laptops despite what the guy with the pocket protector says. They are flimsy and feel cheap. They still have 20th cent…

Why do you need such a build quality? Do you toss around your laptops? Do you keep dropping your laptop? My question is what is the use of such a build quality (apart from the very subjective - "it feels good")

I absolutely do those things all the time as somebody who is naturally clumsy and a heavy mobility user. A laptop that can survive some light abuse, which both MacBooks and Thinkpad's can is an absolute requirement for me.

I can't tell you how many times in my life I've seen a laptop come crashing to the ground. For somebody like me MagSafe is an actual competitive advantage because of the multiple laptop charging ports I've destroyed by tripping over the cord accidentally. I am not alone.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#77

Post by plafl »

notemaker wrote: post #32
plafl wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a usually cited concern for so many people and I'm curious to know why because I rarely unplug my laptop, like most people I know.

This mindset is similar to what people with wired headphones think of Airpods et al. It's not an apparent benefit when you're in the bubble of thinking it's normal to have a wire going across your torso all day and hearing the thuds and bumps propagate through the wire to your ears. But when you buy a pair of wireless buds and have them for a week - you don't go back. You've discovered freedom. Likewise, with battery…

I actually have wireless keyboard, mouse and earphones, both for work and for sport.

But like other commenter says I need nevertheless an space for a 27" monitor, keyboard/mouse and a comfortable office chair. I don't think I have a "mindset", I'm all about improving my day to day, I spend an insane amount of hours in front of my computer. I have been told that my next work computer is going to be a MacBook Pro so I will get a taste of the Apple experience.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#78

Post by Avamander »

frant-hartm wrote: post #8

For developers, going with Intel only (no Nvidia discrete card) is the most sensible choice. I have P15 and it's riddled with issues - not that they are not solvable, but it needs workarounds, restarts of X (logout/login), or running discrete only (which eats battery). The problem is they don't make the larger workstation laptops with Intel only.

> For developers, going with Intel only (no Nvidia discrete card) is the most sensible choice.

Absolutely not. Even the latest gen Intel ThinkPads are power-hungry and wasteful. They either throttle to shit, run way too hot or run way too loud and you have increasingly terrible battery life in all three cases.

AMD resolves a few of those problems, you get more with the same power consumption, but still a good few steps behind a M1 Mac things combined.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#79

Post by scrlk »

Markoff wrote: post #56
gabereiser wrote: post #45

I find it rather peculiar that tech folks think a plastic laptop is good build quality considering what we have from Apple and others. I wish more linux laptops had the build quality and support of macbooks. This isn't a rant from an Apple fan, this is a rant from a laptop fan. ThinkPad's aren't good laptops despite what the guy with the pocket protector says. They are flimsy and feel cheap. They still have 20th cent…

proper thinkpads have strenghtened construction with metal inside and plastic in general is better comfort wise regarding how hot it can get compared to better heat conducting metal They are in no way flimsy, you will much easier damage internal components of nany Mac over Thinkpad T series. but yes, they won't win any beauty contest - if you want reliable workhorse which is relatively ugly go for Thinkpad T series,…

Re: "proper" ThinkPads - Lenovo has made a mess of the model line up and I don't think it's easy for the non-ThinkPad aficionado figure it out (e.g. T series being the entry point in to the classic magnesium alloy roll cage).

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#80

Post by tim-- »

Avamander wrote: post #61
tim-- wrote: post #49

I recently acquired a ThinkBook 16p Gen 2, and while a different machine entirely to the ThinkPad, I must say that this is an _absolute beast_ of a machine. It's a total joy to use. It's the most fun I have had using a laptop since my first MacBook. Moving from the MBP to the ThinkBook has made me realize how... boring MacBooks are - not saying that's a bad thing. MacBooks do 'just work'. But the ThinkBook? The machi…

You have no issues with thermal throttling or inane power limits on Linux? Which kernel version are you running?

Not that I have noticed. Currently running 5.17.3-arch1-1.

I don't usually push this machine too hard - maybe the most that I do is recompiling ffmpeg a few times a day, so it might just be a result of my usage patterns? I'll get back to you with more solid figures later tonight.

EDIT: Just had a play around with sysbench running a few prime number tests while compiling a kernel or two. The k10temp-pci-00c3 (CPU temperature under lm_sensors) seems to stick around at a crispy +64.1°C for a good few minutes, before rising to +65.6°C. It seems to drop back down to +64.2°C. The fan is pretty noisy. The CPU drops down to +50.0°C within 60 seconds of the sysbench benchmark stopping, and the fan noise is completely gone after 90 seconds. Temp is +36.9°C. Idle temp looks like it's around +34.4°C. Not sure how I can measure the db level of the fans? I do have a recorder, so I might be able to do it that way.

Not sure what a good way to actually benchmark the machine would be - it hasn't really come up as a necessity. Maybe I can use the Phoronix Test Suite?

EDIT 2: Doing some searching, maybe I got the machine just in time? 5.17 looks like it added some code specifically around P-states for Linux. https://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_5.17#New_P-State_driver_for_... ... Someone else with my exact same kernel version reports AMD issues being fixed in Arch that they previously had. https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/u7kwza/recent_ar...

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